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    mandelcr's Avatar
    mandelcr Posts: 4, Reputation: 2
    New Member
     
    #1

    Apr 15, 2007, 05:29 PM
    Low Boy Gas Hot Water Heater
    I have a 20 yr. old Rheem low boy 40 gallon gas hot water heater (about 36 inches high)
    In my crawl space. I've found out they don't make that size anymore in 40 gallon size-only comes in 30 gallon size now. I don't know whether I should get a 30 gallon gas one or go to 40 gallon electric hot water heater. Am not handy and wondering what would be best option in regards to price, energy efficiency and being able to provide hot water for a home with 1 and 1/2 baths - only one shower/tub. The hot water heater still works but afraid it will go out one of these days. Also, not sure if I have enough electricity to support an electric one.
    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,378, Reputation: 2280
    Home Repair & Remodeling Expert
     
    #2

    Apr 15, 2007, 05:54 PM
    A 30 gallon heater is intended for 1 or 2 people. 3 or 4 people would need the 40 gallon unit. I had no luck finding a 40 gal low boy gas unit on the internet. Kepp searching, they must be out there but not at Lowe's
    Matt3046's Avatar
    Matt3046 Posts: 831, Reputation: 128
    Senior Member
     
    #3

    Apr 15, 2007, 06:10 PM
    The easiest thing, is to replace it (as closely as possible) with the same type. The brand isn't a big deal. Sears used to carry these exact water heaters.
    Sears.com: Appliances including electric, gas and propane water heaters and accessories from Kenmore
    And look into this the tank less is the way of the future

    Tankless Water Heater Buying Guide
    Tankless Water Heaters - Alternative Energy Store
    labman's Avatar
    labman Posts: 10,580, Reputation: 551
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    #4

    Apr 15, 2007, 06:58 PM
    This question keeps coming up. Do a search here. Tankless ones clearance requirements can be a problem in a crawl space.
    iamgrowler's Avatar
    iamgrowler Posts: 1,421, Reputation: 110
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    #5

    Apr 15, 2007, 09:25 PM
    Tankless ones clearance requirements can be a problem in a crawl space.
    >chuckles<

    You just aren't going to give up on this baseless vendetta against Tankless Heaters, are you, Labman?

    To the OP:

    I have personally installed a number of Tankless Heaters in crawlspaces, and have never had the clearance issues Labman mentions.

    OTOH, if we're talking about the difference between ten gallons of water, then a newer, efficient fast recovery 30 gallon tank would be a better fit for what you describe.
    Jammasta's Avatar
    Jammasta Posts: 6, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #6

    Apr 19, 2007, 07:26 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by mandelcr
    I have a 20 yr. old Rheem low boy 40 gallon gas hot water heater (about 36 inches high)
    in my crawl space. I've found out they don't make that size anymore in 40 gallon size-only comes in 30 gallon size now. I don't know whether I should get a 30 gallon gas one or go to 40 gallon electric hot water heater. Am not handy and wondering what would be best option in regards to price, energy efficiency and being able to provide hot water for a home with 1 and 1/2 baths - only one shower/tub. The hot water heater still works but afraid it will go out one of these days. Also, not sure if I have enough electricity to support an electric one.
    I'm actually having the same problem. I actually needed the 30 gallon gas water heater. I can't seem to find one that is about 40 inchess or less. I can't seem to find the Rheem model you were talking about. The only lowboy one I see that fits that height is a electric one. We all know that electric is not the way to go.

    I actually want to switch to a Tankless, but unfortunately, I was told I can't get it at my house since they are unable to connect the gas line to my meter that is located in the back of my house (all the lines are in the front). I also live in a townhouse, so it doesn't help.

    If anyone can give me a solution or point me to a place that sells these shorties or lowboys under 40 inches, I would be so grateful!!
    labman's Avatar
    labman Posts: 10,580, Reputation: 551
    Uber Member
     
    #7

    Apr 19, 2007, 08:35 PM
    OK Imgrowler, I got sick of your claims about tankless water heaters fitting in crawl spaces. Well maybe some. I took time to dig up the facts as anybody that can read English can. Also available in Spanish and French.

    From the Bosch web site

    See http://www.protankless.com/LinkClick...d=761&mid=2286
    This is for the Bosch GWH-635-ES a smaller product of a leading brand.

    It clearly states you must have 12'' above and below the unit. With its 23 1/2'' height, that means 4 feet, far more than is available in many crawl spaces. More than the 40'' one poster says he has. Are you installing them in violation of the manufacturer's specifications? No I haven't days checking every single product on the market. Can you post a link to to a product approved for in tight spaces?
    iamgrowler's Avatar
    iamgrowler Posts: 1,421, Reputation: 110
    Ultra Member
     
    #8

    Apr 19, 2007, 08:59 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by labman
    OK Imgrowler, I got sick of your claims about tankless water heaters fitting in crawl spaces. Well maybe some. I took time to dig up the facts as anybody that can read English can. Also available in Spanish and French.

    From the Bosch web site

    See http://www.protankless.com/LinkClick...d=761&mid=2286
    This is for the Bosch GWH-635-ES a smaller product of a leading brand.

    It clearly states you must have 12'' above and below the unit. With its 23 1/2'' height, that means 4 feet, far more than is available in many crawl spaces. More than the 40'' one poster says he has. Are you installing them in violation of the manufacturer's specifications? No I haven't days checking every single product on the market. Can you post a link to to a product approved for in tight spaces?

    >chuckles<

    You silly goose, Labman.

    The height/clearance requirements relate to distance from combustibles.

    Just how flammable is the dirt in your crawlspace anyway, Labman?

    Furthermore -- Just how difficult should it be to remove the required 8" of soil from the 40" crawlspace you mention above?

    For crying out loud, Labman, would you just face up to the fact that your dogged vendetta against tankless heaters is based solely on the unimaginative yokel who couldn't think outside the box enough to engineer a system that would have worked for you?

    Because that really is what this -- "This" being your dogged vendetta, is all about.
    Matt3046's Avatar
    Matt3046 Posts: 831, Reputation: 128
    Senior Member
     
    #9

    Apr 19, 2007, 09:13 PM
    Hay, a new 30 gallon electric model would not be that bad. Electrics are allot better than they used to be, and with the price of gas going the way it is it prob won't even be any more expensive. Since the electrics are cheaper to a begin with, spend a few extra bucks on a super efficient one if you can.
    iamgrowler's Avatar
    iamgrowler Posts: 1,421, Reputation: 110
    Ultra Member
     
    #10

    Apr 19, 2007, 09:27 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt3046
    Hay, a new 30 gallon electric model would not be that bad. Electrics are allot better than they used to be, and with the price of gas going the way it is it prob wont even be any more expensive. Since the electrics are cheaper to a begin with, spend a few extra bucks on a super efficient one if you can.
    Replacing the gas fired tank may not be as easy as you say -- If it's an older home, and it sounds like it is, he may not have the capacity in his service panel to add 220V circuit.
    Jammasta's Avatar
    Jammasta Posts: 6, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #11

    Apr 20, 2007, 10:04 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt3046
    Hay, a new 30 gallon electric model would not be that bad. Electrics are allot better than they used to be, and with the price of gas going the way it is it prob wont even be any more expensive. Since the electrics are cheaper to a begin with, spend a few extra bucks on a super efficient one if you can.
    I think Electric gas heater would cost about 2x what you pay in gas. I live in New Jersey and there was a recent increase in electricity (12% hike).
    I actually have 2 30 gallon lowboy (39 1/2 inches height) and since one went down, I'm running on the 1 right now. I'm sure this one is not far from going down as well. What I wanted to know is, is it possible to have a gas and electric water heaters?
    mandelcr's Avatar
    mandelcr Posts: 4, Reputation: 2
    New Member
     
    #12

    Apr 20, 2007, 05:13 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Jammasta
    I'm actually having the same problem. I actually needed the 30 gallon gas water heater. I can't seem to find one that is about 40 inchess or less. I can't seem to find the Rheem model you were talking about. The only lowboy one I see that fits that height is a electric one. We all know that electric is not the way to go.

    I actually wanna switch to a Tankless, but unfortunately, I was told I can't get it at my house since they are unable to connect the gas line to my meter that is located in the back of my house (all the lines are in the front). I also live in a townhouse, so it doesnt help.

    if anyone can give me a solution or point me to a place that sells these shorties or lowboys under 40 inches, I would be so grateful!!!
    A plumbing supply house here in Chicago said that AO Smith makes a 30 gallon low boy gas hot water heater that is 34 1/2 inches high. Quoted me a price of $350.
    The Rheem model I was referring to is 20 years old, still works, but want to be prepared when it does stop working.
    Hope this helps.
    letmetellu's Avatar
    letmetellu Posts: 3,151, Reputation: 317
    Ultra Member
     
    #13

    Apr 20, 2007, 07:13 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by iamgrowler
    >chuckles<

    You silly goose, Labman.

    The height/clearance requirements relate to distance from combustibles.

    Just how flammable is the dirt in your crawlspace anyway, Labman?

    Furthermore -- Just how difficult should it be to remove the required 8" of soil from the 40" crawlspace you mention above?

    For crying out loud, Labman, would you just face up to the fact that your dogged vendetta against tankless heaters is based solely on the unimaginative yokel who couldn't think outside the box enough to engineer a system that would have worked for you?

    Because that really is what this -- "This" being your dogged vendetta, is all about.


    Labman is not the only one person that does not care for the "New Way" tankless water heaters. I have never installed a tankless water heater because I feel like I would be doing my customers a disservice to sell them one and I don't install equipment that people purchase from my competitors namely "Home Depot and Lowes"

    And Growler I think you are a little out of line for calling people names on AMHD, this is a place to give information and everyone is free to do that but that does not give anyone the right to contradict someone else's information. If you don't agree, state you position on the question and leave it at that.
    iamgrowler's Avatar
    iamgrowler Posts: 1,421, Reputation: 110
    Ultra Member
     
    #14

    Apr 20, 2007, 07:54 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by letmetellu
    Labman is not the only one person that does not care for the "New Way" tankless water heaters. I have never installed a tankless water heater because I feel like I would be doing my customers a disservice to sell them one
    Okay, but why not go into detail as to why you wouldn't recommend a tankless water heater?

    and I don't install equipment that people purchase from my competitors namely "Home Depot and Lowes"
    That's understandable -- Neither would I.

    Except for me it is a warranty issue, not a "competitors" issue.

    How can I warranty a fixture or appliance I didn't provide?

    And Growler I think you are a little out of line for calling people names on AMHD,
    Hold the phone there, letmetellu -- Exactly who are you accusing me of calling names?

    Mebbe you should re-read the post.

    this is a place to give information and everyone is free to do that but that does not give anyone the right to contradict someone else's information.
    You're kidding, right?

    I would hope *YOU* would contradict *ME* if you thought my advice was in some way incorrect -- You know, kind of like you're doing right now.

    If you don't agree, state you position on the question and leave it at that.
    Nope, no way, no how.

    Labman is dead wrong in his reasoning.

    I'll wait to see your reasoning before passing judgement on you, of course.

    But you had better be prepared to defend your reasoning.
    labman's Avatar
    labman Posts: 10,580, Reputation: 551
    Uber Member
     
    #15

    Apr 20, 2007, 08:18 PM
    So how am I so dead wrong when the claimed savings exceeds what I spend on gas in the summer time gas dryer and all? I called Bosch and they told me I had to have the clearance under it no matter what was there. Then there is clearance for the vent. I didn't plan to run it up through the bathroom floor.

    Sure glad I didn't blow the money on a boondoggle that would never pay for itself.
    iamgrowler's Avatar
    iamgrowler Posts: 1,421, Reputation: 110
    Ultra Member
     
    #16

    Apr 21, 2007, 07:01 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by labman
    So how am I so dead wrong when the claimed savings exceeds what I spend on gas in the summer time gas dryer and all?
    Now you're just being disingenuous, Labman.

    A) This discussion is about clearance issues.

    B) I've never made claims one way or the other about cost/savings issues.

    I called Bosch and they told me I had to have the clearance under it no matter what was there.
    Yes, you called a manufacturer who caters to the Homeowner/DIY market, of course they are going to cover their butt.

    Then there is clearance for the vent. I didn't plan to run it up through the bathroom floor.
    The last time we had the discussion about engineering a system for your particular installation I made it quite clear that a crawlspace installation was out of the question.

    As I said last time, before the post was removed, engineering a system for you would require installing the tankless heater on the exterior of the house.

    Sure glad I didn't blow the money on a boondoggle that would never pay for itself.
    As I've pointed out before, tankless heaters aren't the answer for everyone.

    The OP in this thread has a single bath household and can get away quite nicely with a 30 or 40 gallon storage type HW tank -- OTOH, if he had a two or three bath house and a house full of teenagers to get off to school in the morning, then a tankless heater would definitely be the way to go.

    Look, Labman, you are free to dismiss tankless heaters all you like, but it is disingenuous of you to dismiss them out of hand without fully explaining why the tankless heater wasn't a perfect fit for you.
    Jammasta's Avatar
    Jammasta Posts: 6, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #17

    Apr 21, 2007, 08:21 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by mandelcr
    A plumbing supply house here in Chicago said that AO Smith makes a 30 gallon low boy gas hot water heater that is 34 1/2 inches high. Quoted me a price of $350.
    The Rheem model I was refering to is 20 years old, still works, but want to be prepared when it does stop working.
    Hope this helps.
    I actually have a 2 15 year old AO Smith in my house. I was told they didn't make them anymore by my gas company. Is there any way you can give me the contact to that plumbing supply house? Maybe they can ship me 2 of them :) Any help would be appreciated. THanks.
    doug238's Avatar
    doug238 Posts: 1,560, Reputation: 62
    Ultra Member
     
    #18

    Apr 21, 2007, 09:29 PM
    I would like to add to the 'tankless' issue. I have installed a bosch tankless. labman is right about them. They leave much to be desired. However, I am rinnai certified and I stand behind that system. It is much different than the bosch. Do a search on the rinnai and you will find a superior heating system that works well in limited areas. This system I have installed in crawlspaces with much success. It draws air from the same way it exhausts. It has a dual vent system that is awesome. I have one in my home. I have 3 and a half bath with 2 laundry rooms. You will never get me to go back to a tank. On the other hand, if you do not have a demand for extra hot water or unlimited hot water then this system is not for you. I have 2 whirlpools, I can fill both completely, at the same time.
    letmetellu's Avatar
    letmetellu Posts: 3,151, Reputation: 317
    Ultra Member
     
    #19

    Apr 22, 2007, 10:58 AM
    [QUOTE=iamgrowler]Okay, but why not go into detail as to why you wouldn't recommend a tankless water heater?

    ANSWER
    I explain to my customers why I don't sell tankless water heaters. And here are the two main reasons: One is if it can not keep up with the required need for hot water it just slows down the amount of water passing through the heater. Another reason may be because in the region I live and work in the water is mostly lake water and it have a very high mineral content, the biggest one being sodium, and the high heat of the heater seems to make the minerals clog up the tubing in the heater. Plus most of Texas is sitting on a natural gas dome so therefore our natural gas is not that high. And I just don't think the payback would be worth while.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________

    Quote:
    And I don't install equipment that people purchase from my competitors namely "Home Depot and Lowes"


    That's understandable -- Neither would I.

    Except for me it is a warranty issue, not a "competitors" issue.

    How can I warranty a fixture or appliance I didn't provide?

    ANSWER
    I don't do warranty work for my competitors, just like I don't buy from them, and the main reason I don't is because I don't like the idea of someone else setting the price for the work that I do. Another reason is if I did do a warranty job for someone that bought there equipment from a "Home Depot" type, the installation does not fit the code, Therefore I an not going to put in a drain pan, raise the heater if required, install the pop-off line to an outside area or to a sewer connection and if I do connect to a sewer connection I have to install a trap filler. Plus other things that might be wrong.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________


    Quote:
    And Growler I think you are a little out of line for calling people names on AMHD,


    Hold the phone there, letmetellu -- Exactly who are you accusing me of calling names?

    Mebbe you should re-read the post.

    Originally Posted by iamgrowler
    >chuckles< You silly goose, Labman.



    ANSWER
    I did re-read the post and I could be wrong on this one, maybe he is a friend of yours and this is just a pet name you have for him.

    __________________________________________________ _______________________


    Quote:
    This is a place to give information and everyone is free to do that but that does not give anyone the right to contradict someone else's information.

    You're kidding, right?

    I would hope *YOU* would contradict *ME* if you thought my advice was in some way incorrect -- You know, kind of like you're doing right now.

    ANSWER
    I might give someone advice different from what you gave to the same person but I would not attack your advice, I would just add my advice as a different post.
    If I did Contradict people on here each time I felt they had given the wrong advice, I feel that most of my post might turn out to be contradictions.

    __________________________________________________ ________________________
    iamgrowler's Avatar
    iamgrowler Posts: 1,421, Reputation: 110
    Ultra Member
     
    #20

    Apr 22, 2007, 05:48 PM
    ANSWER
    I explain to my customers why I don't sell tankless water heaters. And here are the two main reasons: One is if it can not keep up with the required need for hot water it just slows down the amount of water passing through the heater.
    Having never, by your own admission, installed one yourself, I can only imagine where you picked up this nugget of nonsense.

    Another reason may be because in the region I live and work in the water is mostly lake water and it have a very high mineral content, the biggest one being sodium, and the high heat of the heater seems to make the minerals clog up the tubing in the heater.
    Great.

    But what about the 99.9% of the country that doesn't have this problem?

    Don't get me wrong, if mineral buildup is going to be an issue, then you're right, going tankless is the wrong direction -- But this is a region specific issue.

    To openly dismiss there use based on regional issues makes you every bit as closed minded as Labman.

    And yes, LT, I meant that exactly as it sounded.

    Plus most of Texas is sitting on a natural gas dome so therefore our natural gas is not that high. And I just don't think the payback would be worth while.
    And what about the rest of the country where natural gas is either piped in or cracked from coal?

    Quote:
    And I don't install equipment that people purchase from my competitors namely "Home Depot and Lowes"

    That's understandable -- Neither would I.

    Except for me it is a warranty issue, not a "competitors" issue.

    How can I warranty a fixture or appliance I didn't provide?
    ANSWER
    I don't do warranty work for my competitors, just like I don't buy from them, and the main reason I don't is because I don't like the idea of someone else setting the price for the work that I do.
    I think you misunderstood me.

    I cannot and will not offer a warranty for a fixture or appliance I didn't provide.

    Period.

    Another reason is if I did do a warranty job for someone that bought there equipment from a "Home Depot" type, the installation does not fit the code, Therefore I an not going to put in a drain pan, raise the heater if required, install the pop-off line to an outside area or to a sewer connection and if I do connect to a sewer connection I have to install a trap filler. Plus other things that might be wrong.
    We're in agreement here -- If I didn't personally provide the fixture or appliance, then there is no warranty.

    Period.

    Quote:
    And Growler I think you are a little out of line for calling people names on AMHD,


    Hold the phone there, letmetellu -- Exactly who are you accusing me of calling names?

    Mebbe you should re-read the post.

    Originally Posted by iamgrowler
    >chuckles< You silly goose, Labman.
    Yeah.

    So?

    ANSWER
    I did re-read the post and I could be wrong on this one, maybe he is a friend of yours and this is just a pet name you have for him.
    I think it's pretty darn clear what I think of Labman and his 'advice'.

    Quote:
    This is a place to give information and everyone is free to do that but that does not give anyone the right to contradict someone else's information.

    You're kidding, right?

    I would hope *YOU* would contradict *ME* if you thought my advice was in some way incorrect -- You know, kind of like you're doing right now.
    ANSWER
    I might give someone advice different from what you gave to the same person but I would not attack your advice, I would just add my advice as a different post.
    Even if my advice was prejudicial and obviously based on flawed logic and reasoning?

    I really hope you're just kidding, LT.

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