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paraclete · May 20, 2011, 04:15 PM

BO has struck again, this time into the heart of the middle east peace process by declaring that Israel give up gains made in the 1967 war. Hasn't he heard that the process had moved on and now he touts the Hamas line.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/20/wo...h.html?_r=1&hp
I expect his next speech will demand giving the Golan heights back to Syria. There can be no doubt this boy is more Muslim that he lets on

tomder55 · May 20, 2011, 04:51 PM

I thought it would've been perfect if Bebe had said in their joint news conference today that the US should return to pre-1848 borders.
The 1967 border was indefensible then. Now the Palestinians launch missiles that almost have the range to hit any part of Israel... let alone a 9 mile width nation.

For the President it's an easy calculation . He proposes a plan that he knows the Israelis cannot accept and appears solidly in the Islamists camp.
Poor Israel ;they are alone in the world.(except Steven Harper in Canada) It makes me ill.
If you knew all that I knew, my poor Jerusalem,
You'd see the truth, but you close your eyes.
But you close your eyes.
While you live, your troubles are many, poor Jerusalem.
To conquer death, you only have to die.
You only have to die.
(Jesus Christ Superstar)

excon · May 20, 2011, 05:11 PM

Hello clete:

It's becoming apparent, that every Bush policy the right USED to love, now that Obama mimics it, is now some dreaded left wing conspiracy...

Atlantic Monthly's Jeffrey Goldberg points out:

I'm amazed at the amount of insta-commentary out there suggesting that the President has proposed something radical and new by declaring that Israel's 1967 borders should define — with land-swaps — the borders of a Palestinian state.

I'm feeling a certain Groundhog Day effect here. This has been the basic idea for at least 12 years. This is what Bill Clinton, Ehud Barak and Yasser Arafat were talking about at Camp David, and later, at Taba. This is what George W. Bush was talking about with Ariel Sharon and Ehud Olmert. (Emphasis added.) So what's the huge deal here? Is there any non-delusional Israeli who doesn't think that the 1967 border won't serve as the rough outline of the new Palestinian state?

Excon

tomder55 · May 20, 2011, 05:36 PM

I'll go on record here to say that I was no fan of the Bush "Roadmap " to nowhere ,and said so at the time . The idea of a return to 67' borders or the right of return is preposterous .It won't happen as an end of negotiations let alone a starting point.

Why in hell should the Palestinians negotiate at all ? They are rewarded with concessions with violence. Last weekends bum rush of the borders was the most recent example. It almost seemed a little too coordinated to come on the eve of the President's address to be a coincidence..

paraclete · May 20, 2011, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

I'll go on record here to say that I was no fan of the Bush "Roadmap " to nowhere ,and said so at the time . The idea of a return to 67' borders or the right of return is preposterous .It won't happen as an end of negotiations let alone a starting point.

Why in hell should the Palestinians negotiate at all ? They are rewarded with concessions with violence. last weekends bum rush of the borders was the most recent example. It almost seemed a little too coordinated to come on the eve of the President's address to be a coincidence..

Yes Tom we know they coordinate these things, you know the game; demonstrate or die. What is needed here is some new initiatives, not trotting out the same old hackneyed line. The UN made a mess when Israel was set up, surely it is up to the UN to rectify it. I vote they give Gaza back to Egypt and the West Bank back to Jordan and let those two negotiate with the Palistanians. It means Israel would have bigger targets if the Palistanians can't be kept under control and Israel could complete that big wall by enclosing their entire nation

I think it is interesting that BO is now being sold as deliberately misunderstood by the Israeli's. I don't think anyone misunderstood the intent, the ambit game which has been played by the US for decades. What I cannot understand is they support the same platform as terrorists. They never learn. They should definitely change the speechwriter if not the speech deliverer

tomder55 · May 23, 2011, 08:44 AM

The President has this habit of stating what the end game should be at the beginning of negotiations .He did this also with 'settlements'. The Palestinians took that as an opening to say that they would not negotiate with Israel until settlement freeze was implemented... basically the Israelis faced another situation where they being forced into making unilateral concessions... just like happened in Gaza(see how well that worked out).

excon · May 23, 2011, 09:01 AM

Hello again:

Even if I subscribe to the substance of the complaint, I did NOT like another foreign leader reprimanding OUR president, in PUBLIC, in OUR oval office - and I'm a Jew. Especially since we are their ONE and ONLY lifelong supporter.

Bibi did NOT help his cause.

excon

tomder55 · May 23, 2011, 09:44 AM

But it's acceptable for Obama to publicly and in person tell him what Israel's national borders should be ?

Don't forget the history here.
1. Obama humiliated Bibi during his 1st visit to the White House.
Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner' - Times Online
2. Then Bibi wasn't informed about the content of the President's ME address even though he was going to meet with the President the next day.

For his part, Mr. Netanyahu has complained that Mr. Obama has pushed Israel too far — a point driven home during a furious phone call with Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton on Thursday morning, just hours before Mr. Obama’s speech, during which the prime minister reacted angrily to the president’s plan to endorse Israel’s pre-1967 borders for a future Palestinian state.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/20/wo...y.html?_r=2&hp

3. Then at the presser the President basically reiterated the position he took with Bibi at his side as if they were in agreement .

I don't think the President gave Bibi any choice but the respond that way. Yesteday the President only slighty modified his position speaking to AIPAC.

It will be interesting what Bibi says to Congress tomorrow.

excon · May 23, 2011, 09:50 AM

Hello again, tom:

No matter the POLICY, you get pissed off at Obama when he bows at a foreign leader... But, it's OK for Netanyahu to berate YOUR president...

I'm just getting things straight here...

excon

tomder55 · May 23, 2011, 10:13 AM

I would applaud if the President met with Hugo Chavez and told him off publicly . But he won't do that .Instead he grovels to our enemies and publicly disses our friends.
Why should Bibi even pretend to agree with the non-starter position that President took with Bibi by his side ? Why should Bibi eat a cr*p sandwich just because he's in the White House ?
What you are saying is that because the President bows to foreign leaders then in return foreign leaders should bow to him.

smoothy · May 23, 2011, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, tom:

No matter the POLICY, you get pissed off at Obama when he bows at a foreign leader... But, it's ok for Netanyahu to berate YOUR president...

I'm just getting things straight here...

excon

After what Obama told him... Bebe had every right to say that to him. And Netenyahu showed far more dignity and respect to Obama than Obama did to him.

Its like The UN demanding we turn California and the SW USA over to Mexico claiming it will resolve the Illegal Immigrations problem. And us not being able to tell them where to go.

Have you heard anyone demanding Europe return Germany to the pre-WW1 boundaries? Nope... and Israel shouldn't either.

The Palestinians already got the Gaza Strip AND the West bank... and they have delivered on exactly what promises since then?

excon · May 23, 2011, 07:59 PM

Hello again, smoothy:

Just so that we're CLEAR.. Your sense of national outrage when Obama BOWED rings hollow. Turns out only to be HATRED of Obama. Certainly, if you had ANY sense of your nation, your national outrage would have been on FULL alert, when a foreign leader shook his finger at YOUR president...

But, nahhh... You're not PROUD of your country, nor do you love it.. You simply HATE Obama, and you're willing to throw all respect for the presidency under the bus to prove it.

excon

paraclete · May 24, 2011, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Just so that we're CLEAR.. Your sense of national outrage when Obama BOWED rings hollow. Turns out only to be HATRED of Obama. Certainly, if you had ANY sense of your nation, your national outrage would have been on FULL alert, when a foreign leader shook his finger at YOUR president....

But, nahhh... You're not PROUD of your country, nor do you love it.. You simply HATE Obama, and you're willing to throw all respect for the presidency under the bus to prove it.

excon

Oh Please EX! Why don't you realise it, BO is just as big an embarrassment as Bush. He has one scalp on his belt, OBL, an old man hiding in the backwoods of Pakistan who offered no resistance to his assassination.

No new initiatives here, just the same tired policies. The people of the middle east will sort it out for themselves, recent events have taught us that, they don't need BO and they don't need the US to do it for them. All this shouting from the bleechers does nothing for the game, it just diverts attention from the big problems at home

I expect the next foreign leader to shake his finger at BO will be Karzai and it will be to tell him to take his troops home

smoothy · May 24, 2011, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Just so that we're CLEAR.. Your sense of national outrage when Obama BOWED rings hollow. Turns out only to be HATRED of Obama. Certainly, if you had ANY sense of your nation, your national outrage would have been on FULL alert, when a foreign leader shook his finger at YOUR president....

But, nahhh... You're not PROUD of your country, nor do you love it.. You simply HATE Obama, and you're willing to throw all respect for the presidency under the bus to prove it.

excon

I'm not an Anti-Semite with deep personal Issues like Obama is.

Obama already ruined what Respect for the Presidency remained after Bill Clinton shredded it renting out the Lincoln Bedroom.