Ask Experts Questions for FREE Help !
Ask
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #21

    May 20, 2011, 08:03 AM

    The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.
    Thomas Jefferson
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
    Expert
     
    #22

    May 20, 2011, 08:29 AM

    Sorry Tom, and Thomas. I have to disagree again. The enemy of the people is ignorance, and laziness. The effectiveness of government is a reflection of the people being informed, and voting. The mess we have today with all the problems yet unsolved is a mirror of how we the people have been lax in our own responsibilities. You can't lock your problems away, or not vote, and expect good results to come of it.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
    Ultra Member
     
    #23

    May 20, 2011, 03:54 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    the people have been lax in our own responsibilities. You can't lock your problems away, or not vote, and expect good results to come of it.
    That's it Tom that's why our system works well, we have compulsory voting, no sitting on your duff blaming the other bloke here
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #24

    May 20, 2011, 04:55 PM

    Forcing people to vote makes a responsible citizenry ? Lol Dictatorships get huge turnouts too.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
    Ultra Member
     
    #25

    May 20, 2011, 06:17 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    forcing people to vote makes a responsible citizenry ? lol Dictatorships get huge turnouts too.
    What you get is a true reflection of opinion, not apathy. The donkey vote is surprisingly low, not any greater than we see over there. We don't have to use guns to get people to vote, they have been educated to understand their obligation, which is to ensure responsible government
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
    Expert
     
    #26

    May 20, 2011, 07:17 PM

    They don't want everyone to vote here, and have ALL KINDS of tactics to stop it.Even though voter fraud is very low. That makes it easier for the few to have power, who can then make laws to make money, and keep power. But I think some are waking up, and seeing how precious their vote is, and will lawfully get their ducks in a row... and express themselves with their vote.

    Even in TEXAS!!
    TUT317's Avatar
    TUT317 Posts: 657, Reputation: 76
    Senior Member
     
    #27

    May 20, 2011, 08:26 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    forcing people to vote makes a responsible citizenry ? lol Dictatorships get huge turnouts too.

    Hi Tom,

    Well actually it does. It forces us to take social responsibility. Dictatorships do get huge turnouts but the analogy is a poor one. It would be impossible to argue that Australia is dictatorship because we are forced to vote.


    Tut.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
    Ultra Member
     
    #28

    May 20, 2011, 11:10 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by TUT317 View Post
    Hi Tom,

    Well actually it does. It forces us to take social responsibility. Dictatorships do get huge turnouts but the analogy is a poor one. It would be impossible to argue that Australia is dictatorship because we are forced to vote.


    Tut.
    Yes, Tut it is strange, isn't it, a place where people are free, yet they have compulsory voting and no guns, sort of gives the lie to some cherished notions of freedom.
    TUT317's Avatar
    TUT317 Posts: 657, Reputation: 76
    Senior Member
     
    #29

    May 21, 2011, 02:20 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    Yes, Tut it is strange, isn't it, a place where people are free, yet they have compulsary voting and no guns, sort of gives the lie to some cherished notions of freedom.

    Hi Clete,

    I couldn't agree more with your statement and I could be more mystified.
    As a fellow Aussie I am preaching to the converted here.

    Therefore, my comments are directed at Tom and perhaps others of a similar persuasion. Naturally I would be interested in your response as well because the answer is beyond me.

    Every time we put forward the 'social responsibility' argument in relation to such things as media and freedom of speech we get the standard response. This usually takes the form of some dictatorial figure in history who, by implication, demonstrates that we live in anything less than a free society.

    Tut
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #30

    May 21, 2011, 02:29 AM

    Maybe it's just me. I see a disconnect between the words "free " and "compulsary"..
    TUT317's Avatar
    TUT317 Posts: 657, Reputation: 76
    Senior Member
     
    #31

    May 21, 2011, 02:41 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Maybe it's just me. I see a disconnect between the words "free " and "compulsary"..

    Hi Tom,

    Good response.

    I thought you might say that the shadow of Marxism is looming over Australia.

    One way of looking at it is to acknowledge there are degrees of freedom.

    Tut
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
    Ultra Member
     
    #32

    May 21, 2011, 03:04 AM
    Well Tom the interesting thing is we haven't had to remove any of our leaders by assassination, the closest we came is what you might call impreachment, when an elected leader was thrown out on his duff for a similar situation to what exists in america at the moment, irresponsible fiscal policy and you know what? The electorate endorsed the move at the election. True democracy in action

    Tom thinks we are marxist because citizens are required to exercise the most precious aspect of their citizenship. You can abstain but it costs money or you can waste your vote and write sweet nothings on the ballot, but be recorded you will. What can't and doesn't happen here is any coercion at the ballot box and no hanging chards
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #33

    May 21, 2011, 03:35 AM

    Clete ;I'll call you one hanging chad and raise you charges of 'branch-stacking' .
    Keep up your illusions... your system is as pure as the wind driven slush .
    TUT317's Avatar
    TUT317 Posts: 657, Reputation: 76
    Senior Member
     
    #34

    May 21, 2011, 04:27 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Clete ;I'll call you one hanging chad and raise you charges of 'branch-stacking' .
    Keep up your illusions .....your system is as pure as the wind driven slush .
    Hi Tom,

    I guess political slush comes in degrees, a bit like political freedom.

    It seems to me that freedom of speech is the Rosetta Stone. Compulsory voting is anathema to freedom. Therefore, if you are forced to vote then you don't really have freedom because compulsory voting contradicts the 'ideal' of freedom. The assumption is that freedom is an ideal rather than something subject to checks and balances, just like most things in politics. Isn't that a problem if we look at freedom as an ideal.

    Tut
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #35

    May 21, 2011, 04:56 AM

    Clete calls it lazy not to vote, as your system makes fraud easier by allowing mail in balloting. If you are going to make voting mandatory why not just do it on a single day with everyone parading goose step to the polling places ?
    I see a non-vote as a legitimate expression of preference as much as registering a vote. The politicians here have to bust their butts prior to an election to convince the electorate to vote for them . Turn out is always a significant factor. It was a large part of the Obama and Bush strategy in the 2004 and 2008 campaigns .
    TUT317's Avatar
    TUT317 Posts: 657, Reputation: 76
    Senior Member
     
    #36

    May 21, 2011, 05:21 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Clete calls it lazy not to vote, as your system makes fraud easier by allowing mail in balloting. If you are going to make voting mandatory why not just do it on a single day with everyone parading goose step to the polling places ?
    Hi Tom,

    Last time I voted I didn't goose step. I had to run because the local booth closed at 6 pm.

    See, there you go again... Now you got me doing it!

    Being forced to vote is an affront to someone's freedom not to vote. By definition this is the antithesis of freedom. Australians force people to vote therefore,the only logical conclusion is that Australia must be a non-free country.

    Assuming we are a free country, can you explain why it is the case we are free? Or, is it the case we are deluded?

    Tut
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
    Ultra Member
     
    #37

    May 21, 2011, 05:36 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Clete ;I'll call you one hanging chad and raise you charges of 'branch-stacking' .
    Keep up your illusions .....your system is as pure as the wind driven slush .
    Branch stacking, if and when it occurs, is little different to the methods of candidate selection employed by your party machines and please remember you are speaking of candidate preselection, not elections and false counts. Our leftists are full of failed union candidates, but we know it. Even the little red fox is a former union leader, as red as they come, so we have no illusions and certainly no messiahs
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
    Expert
     
    #38

    May 21, 2011, 10:20 AM

    LOL, you can exercise your right not to vote, but they only count the ones that do vote.

    National Voter Turnout in Federal Elections: 1960?2008 — Infoplease.com

    Notice a pattern? Only a bit more than half the people vote any way. In years there are no presidential elections, less than 4 in 10 Americans vote. You wonder where this wacky politicians come from? From us, not being there to be counted. Just look at the current make up of the House and Senate. Like Newt said, right wing radicalism is just as bad as left wing radicalism, and has no place in a democracy!!

    You see where that got him since he didn't walk lock step with his own party.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #39

    May 21, 2011, 10:41 AM

    Why bring up Newt ? He's so 20th century irrelevant. He made a global warming add with Pelosi calling it 'settled science. He is in favor of Obamacare mandates . He attacked the Ryan budget proposal.

    With positions like that he'd best go register as a Dem.

    I did enjoy his alternate history ficton novels about Gettysburg . They were well done enjoyable reading books . In an alternate world he'd be a good conservative Republican. Maybe he should come out of his fantasy world .

    Now to low voter turnout ;perhaps you are misreading it. I get involved from time to time in local elections . I find when there is dissatisfaction there is a larger turn out. Maybe just maybe those off year elections are representative of the population generally being satisfied with the status quo. I don't know why that is so ;but it is an observation that has held up over time.
    Gee... I wonder if mandatory elections would force people to know the names of the elected school board or town board or building inspector ?

    No ,I don't buy the lazy and stupid argument... but I understand that the patronizing left would feel that way. Mandatory voting does nothing to address the question :why are they chosing not to vote ?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #40

    May 21, 2011, 11:37 AM

    Assuming we are a free country, can you explain why it is the case we are free? Or, is it the case we are deluded?
    You just can't distinguish between a civic duty and a civil right. Civil rights, like having the franchise ,is for the individual to chose to exercise .
    Civic duties like jury duty or paying taxes are not . Fining a free person for not exercising a civil right is tyranny.

    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about being a free society. Deluded but free. Compulsory is by force and by force is not free.

Not your question? Ask your question View similar questions

 

Question Tools Search this Question
Search this Question:

Advanced Search

Add your answer here.


Check out some similar questions!

When did Texas Light Bulb Austin Texas go out of business? [ 1 Answers ]

Texas Light Bulb is a lighting business in Austin, Texas. Went out of business after over 30 years. What originally owned by Ricky Cox but he sold it to the Lee family. It went out of business severay years ago but I don't know when or if they just closed their doors and left down.

Speaking to the deceased [ 6 Answers ]

I see feelings, images of deceased persons, pets, as well as the living. Ask me. Dirk

Speaking [ 4 Answers ]

I have problem speaking. I am not able to express my ideas exactly in the way I want to. There is no flow in my sentence,my words gets jumbled in every sentence I make. I really don know wats my problem,I take my own time to locate the words but still I find it hard to make a perfect sentence....

3 1/2 not speaking, what can I do? [ 3 Answers ]

Hi, I am worried that there is something wrong with my daughter, she is 3 years old now will turn 4 in August but she doesn't have any clear words yet. She can say "papa", "momma", "morning", "bye". She replies when called. She sways (dance) to music. But if she doesn't get she shouts and...

F1 in Oklahoma-OPT in Texas-H1B in Texas [ 7 Answers ]

Hello all!!!:) First at all, this is a great forum! I've been reading a lot of posts, and they are very very useful. Now I got a question for the tax experts and non-experts too:p!! This is my case: I was studying and working as a Teacher Assistant in Oklahoma from 08.26.02 to 03.06.05....


View more questions Search