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    pepsis4kids's Avatar
    pepsis4kids Posts: 3, Reputation: 2
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    #1

    Jan 13, 2011, 03:29 PM
    My boyfriend and his 12yr old daughter kiss,hug and cuddle constantly.Is this normal?
    We are both 40 and although I get all the attention in the world from my boyfriend of 15 months, it grosses me out to see him and his daughter kiss (on the lips) and hug and the "I love you's" that are constant between them, whom he has 50% of the time. The biggest gross-out for me is the cuddling on the couch. Every night, they are under a blanket, cuddling arm in arm with each other while we watch TV, and I can't even look at them. I sit as far away as I can (I've been invited to join them and always say no thanks). I grew up in a family that doesn't do any of that so I hope I am over-reacting. But when I witness it, and I see it often, I don't think oh how nice that they have such a great relationship, instead I think how gross it is. I know there isn't any sexual inuendos going on (although he see's her naked in the tub or changing her clothes, and that, I feel, is definitely wrong). He thinks I'm the weirdo because my family does not say I love you, or kiss, or hug or any of that. But we are a very close family regardless. I don't need my dad cuddling me and hugging me 5 times a day to prove it. I hope I'm just over-reacting. This behaviour with them is so foreign to me. She is often trying to cuddle up to me as well when we are on the couch and I find ways to get away by saying I'm too hot, or I'm uncomfortable, or I just leave the room. It's too weird. What is really bizarre is the fact that I won the lottery as far as dating a guy with a teenage daughter goes. She's great, she loves me to death, and she's a good girl. Why am I so bent out of shape about them being so physically close. I hope the response is that I'm an idiot and this is normal, healthy behaviour between dads and daughters. BTW, I have no children. Never wanted any.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #2

    Jan 13, 2011, 08:00 PM

    While you would freak out in my house too, the thought of seeing my naked daughter sends chills up my spine too! Some of this is you just not being use to an openly affectionate family. Hey you can't help the way you were raised.

    I think as daughters get older, they should get more privacy from dad, at least mine did. Same with moms and sons.

    But I may be an idiot too!
    Jake2008's Avatar
    Jake2008 Posts: 6,721, Reputation: 3460
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    #3

    Jan 13, 2011, 09:33 PM
    Tal, you are about as far from being an idiot as possible.

    Pepsi, I understand why you would feel this way. My family is close too, but by the age of 12, It sounds like the father daughter relationship here is a bit inappropriate. Unless I am also an idiot.

    There needs to be some boundaries between a developing 12 year old, and her father. And any other adult for that matter. She is the only one who should see herself naked, and she should have complete privacy when she is dressing. She does not need supervised at her age in taking care of bathing herself or dressing herself.

    The kissing on the lips, frequently, bothers me too. As does the cuddling under the blanket, frequently. It may mean nothing, but added to what you have said, it adds up to a 12 year old not having appropriate boundaries with her father the way I see it. Or, more to the point, him not having appropriate boundaries with his daughter.

    Frequent kissing, cuddling, seeing the 12 year old naked, just doesn't sit right.

    Just my opinion, but you may wish to try to express yourself to him when she is not there. Maybe it is time to ease up on the physical contact; a little less frequency with the kissing and cuddling. I think if they were kissing frequently on the lips going through the grocery store, most people would agree it is inappropriate.

    Just my opinion, but I would address this again, particularly if there are other children in the home, and they too seem uncomfortable.
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,317, Reputation: 5972
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    #4

    Jan 13, 2011, 11:37 PM

    I guess I'm the idiot, because I do still cuddle with my 12 year old son, and we do hug and kiss. I grew up in a very affectionate household. A hug and kiss was a show of that affection, and whenever I saw my parents they received a hug and a kiss (yes, on the lips) until the day they died, and I was 30 at that time. I love you was said often. I have to say, I had a wonderful childhood, and the best parents anyone could hope for. That affection got me through a lot of tough times.

    My son is old enough to bathe himself, so I don't have any reason to see him naked, but there have been times where I accidentally walked in on him while he was changing, or he walks in on me. Again, maybe I'm the idiot, but I've never felt that nudity was a big deal. He doesn't freak out if I walk in on him, nor does he freak out if he walks in on me. That's also how I was raised. Of course I'm German, and it's a very different culture. Nudity is not a big deal in Germany. It wasn't until we moved to Canada that we realized that most people are really anal about the naked body.

    I totally disagree with Annon. He's not sexually abusing her. He's showing affection to his child. How is that sexual abuse? Take it from someone that was molested as a child (no, not by my parents). Annon is definitely overreacting.

    To the OP. If you feel uncomfortable than tell him, but don't expect him to change how he treats his daughter. This is the way he shows affection, and you yourself said that there's nothing sexual going on.

    It took a long time for my husband to get used to being hugged and kissed by my relatives, my aunts, uncles, cousins, we're all a big huggy kissy group. Now he's used to it. He's still not a huggy kissy guy, but he understands that in my family it's the norm.

    You boyfriends daughter will likely start to pull away from the cuddling very soon. She's at that age where cuddling with dad will soon not be okay, but the hugging and kissing will likely last forever. I hope for her sake that it does, because it sounds like she has a really wonderful relationship with her dad, and she wants to include you too.

    If thinking it's okay makes me an idiot, I'll wear that badge proudly. I'd rather be an idiot that shows my kids how much I love them, that teaches them that showing affection is okay, than an idiot that has two kids that have no idea how to show affection.
    QLP's Avatar
    QLP Posts: 980, Reputation: 656
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    #5

    Jan 14, 2011, 04:11 AM

    Different families have different norms with these things.

    I'm probably average on affection, still hug my adult kids but don't kiss them on the mouth. Wouldn't worry me a jot if I saw them naked or they saw me but sure wouldn't go out of my way to make it happen. Both my son and daughter wander around in their undies at times and still request a massage from me if they have aches and pains they need help with. We still tell each other, 'love you' on a regualar basis.

    I had a friend who was into naturism and the whole family used to wander around naked at home all the time and visitors were expected to not bat an eyelid. Bit much for me but only because I go out of my way to make visitors comfortable not because I see any moral dilemma.

    Talk to your boyfriend about this, not in a judgemental way, but simply admit that you come from a different family dynamic and that it feels strange to you. There is no set standard on this you can only try and work on a compromise that makes you all feel reasonably comfortable. My guess is the daughter will want a little less physical affection as she gets a bit older anyway.
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    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #6

    Jan 14, 2011, 06:38 AM

    I'm in the middle here. The I Love Yous, the cuddling, the hugging, don't bother me the least bit. I think we also have to remember that this is a child of divorced parents and there may be some overcompensation because of that.

    But the kissing on the lips does bother me a little. And, at 12 he shouldn't be seeing her in the tub or changing. That bothers me unless its totally unavoidable. And I don't see why it shouldn't.

    So this is what I would recommend. First, talk to him about her growing up and having her privacy. I think this is the most important aspect of all this. Make him understand that it is no longer appropriate for him to walk in on her bathing or changing. If necessary, make sure the bathroom door is lockable.

    Then tell him that the overt displays of affection make you uncomfortable. Tell him you understand that part is YOUR problem. But that they need to help you through it. Soft pedal things a bit when you are around. On your side, you should try to be more affectionate and join in more. Try to develop a happy medium that all can live with.
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    pandead Posts: 280, Reputation: 228
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    #7

    Jan 14, 2011, 12:23 PM

    My mom kissed me on the lips until I told her not to, my dad never did. As far as I can remember, my dad never walked in while I was taking a bath, he probably wouldn't even help me get dressed when I was 12.

    Here's the deal. I love my parents. I've been showered with affection my entire life, even when I was 2000 miles away. Because they don't have to constantly SHOW their affection to me by touching and/or kissing. I'm not a touchy-feely person, I don't even drink after other people. But I do love my parents and at 29 years old, my dad is still a super hero, without kissing me on the lips... not even once.

    Talk to him nicely and remind him his little girl is about to become a young lady. Maybe her mom doesn't show her affection at all so she's getting the affection she needs from her dad. You are very lucky, if it's the case because she likes you, you can try to help her getting dressed if she needs it, talk about "girl stuff" and help her when she goes through the difficult phase, from being a kid to being a teenager. You don't have to hug her all the time, there are million ways to show your affection ;)
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    answerme_tender Posts: 1,148, Reputation: 689
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    #8

    Jan 14, 2011, 01:01 PM

    You recognize that how you show affection is different from how your boyfriend is raising his daughter. I appreciate that you feel uncomfortable, so sit down and talk to him. Just because its different from each other doesn't make how one shows effection better then the other one.

    I had terrible childhood, only physical contact I got from my father was a fist, so I was bound and determined to show affection and tell my children how much I love them.

    My children were raised with hugs, kisses, and the words I love you every single day!! Now my daughter wouldn't of liked anyone walking in on her while she was naked after she matured, but that is just her way. Now, on the other hand, she doesn't hesitate to talk about anything sexual in front of me as her Mother.

    Now, my son is totally different. I think he has the nudist gene, he wouldn't think about walking out bathroom to bedroom in front of strangers, let alone family. Of course this starts WWIII between him and his sister if she is visiting!!

    I still kiss my children on the lips and tell them I love them, when saying goodnight or goodbye. My daughter is 23yrs and we hold hands when out shopping. Do you think I give a second thought as to what other people think about that--NOPE. I am very proud that I changed the cycle of abuse, and not showing affection in my family. If something would ever happen I never want to wonder if I not only showed but told my chlldren how much I love them and respect now as adults.

    Remember difference is not always a mountain to climb, sometimes its just a mound that takes no effort at all to walk over!!
    pepsis4kids's Avatar
    pepsis4kids Posts: 3, Reputation: 2
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    #9

    Jan 14, 2011, 01:57 PM
    Thanks for all the input. It's very helpful.

    Annon's answer must have been deleted, I didn't get a chance to read it, but I'm kind of relieved that I didn't read it. It surely would have freaked me out.

    His daughter is almost 13, and she looks like she's 16, so I totally agree that he should not be seeing her naked. But every time she's in the tub, or just in the bathroom with the door closed, he often makes his way there and opens the door without knocking to see how she's doing. What is that? She's bathing, or using the toilet, leave her the hell alone I say. He walks into her bedroom without knocking all the time.

    I have had talks with him about this, and he knows it makes me uncomfortable, but his response is, "it's just boobies, I've seen them before and she's my daughter so stop being weird about this, I've seen her body her whole life. I'm her dad!!." And those discussions end up ruining our whole evening so I avoid them now. He's offended that I would even bring it up.

    I was hoping that I was wrong to feel uncomfortable about this. I can get over the constant kisses and cuddles I think, but why isn't she embarrassed to be seen naked by her dad. They have whole converstions in the bathrom while she's in the tub. Meanwhile I'm completely (but secretly) mortified in the kitchen.

    I have been getting better at being affectionate with her. She's the only person I've said I love you to that isn't related or my boyfriend. (My BF was losing his mind that I wouldn't say it to her in the beginning) And it was the hardest thing for me to do. And she hugs me about 3 times a day so I do hug her back of course. But if it were up to my boyfriend, she and I would be under blankets cuddling with kisses. NO THANKS!
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #10

    Jan 14, 2011, 02:28 PM

    Although its hard to say without knowing more background on him and his daughter, but he sounds like a nudist, and that's not for everyone. I think you will have to make a decision about where you fit into this situation, and what sort of influence you will be on them both, and they on you. Seems everything else is so perfect, but that one glitch is a big one to you.

    I think if this is to be solved, maybe you talk more about his attitudes, and where they came from, and a better solution can maybe be reached as to what the future holds for you both. He really doesn't sound like the compromising type, but good luck.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #11

    Jan 14, 2011, 04:37 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by pepsis4kids View Post

    His daughter is almost 13, and she looks like she's 16, so I totally agree that he should not be seeing her naked. But every time she's in the tub, or just in the bathroom with the door closed, he often makes his way there and opens the door without knocking to see how she's doing. What is that?! She's bathing, or using the toilet, leave her the hell alone I say. He walks into her bedroom without knocking all the time.
    This is really hard to gauge. On the one hand I am disturbed by a dad that make a point of seeing his teenage daughter nude. On the other hand, if the daughter is perfectly comfortable with this, it may be something that is very normal between them. But I'm wondering if the reverse happens. Does she see him nude at times? Does she feel free to enter the bathroom when he is bathing?

    But even if the nudity is not a problem, the inconsideration about privacy is. ANY person is entitled to privacy. The reason doors exist is provide privacy and a closed door should be respected.
    pepsis4kids's Avatar
    pepsis4kids Posts: 3, Reputation: 2
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    #12

    Jan 15, 2011, 12:30 PM
    Comment on ScottGem's post
    I agree with you on the privacy issue. The bedroom doors don't lock. She's opened the door on her dad several times while he's on the toilet, to talk to him, sometimes he'll yell "get out of here", sometime he doesn't. I think its sick and wrong
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #13

    Jan 15, 2011, 12:51 PM

    Sounds like a double standard to me. One that is unacceptable. Cheer up though, because any relationship is based on honest communications, and a willingness to work together and you seem honestly upset with his lack of boundaries about privacy. You have a right to tell him so, and if he cannot respect your concerns in an adult, healthy way then, he can raise his daughter without your help.

    I think this preview into his character should be paid attention to closely, and not just passed over because he appears to be such a great catch, because its a red flag when a partner creeps you out.
    pandead's Avatar
    pandead Posts: 280, Reputation: 228
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    #14

    Jan 15, 2011, 04:56 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    because its a red flag when a partner creeps you out.

    ERROR: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to talaniman again.

    I couldn't help but laugh...
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    kaka67 Posts: 261, Reputation: 200
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    #15

    Jan 15, 2011, 06:13 PM

    Ok.. Im mixed with this one...

    Is the daughter complaining? Is he complaining?

    You are the only one that's complaining.

    Youve said its not sexual ie incest/pedo stuff havent you?

    They obviously have different boundaries in regards to personal space. She does it too him as well i.e. walking into the bathroom when he's on the loo.

    One of my exes walked around with no clothes on and sat on the loo with the door open.

    Her son and daughter didn't care because they were used to it. I didn't like it because that just wasn't done in my family.

    But my ex never walked into the bathroom or there room without knocking. Goodness knows what a 13 yo boy is getting up to in the shower :eek:


    Your partner kisses her on the lips? Ive seen heaps of people do this with there kids. Its us who make it a sexual thing. Not them.

    So who's the weirdos?? :p

    I think you should decide whether you can accept this behaviour or not. If you can't then leave.
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    dontknownuthin Posts: 2,910, Reputation: 751
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    #16

    Jan 15, 2011, 06:20 PM

    Not to be too much the devil's advocate but this sounds like it's above and beyond a normally affectionate family. Why would a dad need to go into the bathroom when his 12 year old is bathing, or see her change her clothes? He has some boundary issues for certain. And why is this 12 year old comfortable with something so odd as her father doing that.

    A quick peck on the lips in greeting or for goodnight doesn't bother me between parents and children, and hugs don't either, and even sitting with a child to watch TV and share a blanket, but we all know the difference between affection to a child and affection that's appropriate in an intimate relationship, and if you think you're seeing inappropriate intimacy, I would trust your gut.
    Just Dahlia's Avatar
    Just Dahlia Posts: 2,155, Reputation: 445
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    #17

    Jan 15, 2011, 08:10 PM
    I think after reading all this, that the next time she is in the bath... go in there (if you can handle it) and talk to her, just chit chat. See if she is uncomfortable, it might give you some insight on her modesty or wait until Dad is there first and bring a book or maybe pee... see if they get uncomfortable.:);)
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    sic1231 Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
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    #18

    Feb 18, 2011, 10:25 PM
    Many nuclear families have no problem seeing each other nude, let alone cuddling with one another. These are people that share an extremely close emotional and genetic blond, not just an elevator ride. Why shouldn't they share a physical one as well?
    Your family relationship very likely looks just as weird to him as he and his daughter's does to you. It sure sounds weird to me, anyway. He's probably just nicer than you are and chooses not to make a fuss about it.
    To the other posters. As a man, if I knew you believed I was capable of having ANY sort of sexual relationship with my own daughter, you would be packing your things immediately. Or at the very least, sleeping on the couch for awhile.
    Anyway, you either need to get help coping with whatever issues you have, or just leave them be. Just because you grew up in a household that wasn't affectionate doesn't mean he and his daughter can't have one that is. This is a guy that will only ever see his little girl half as much as he'd like to. You truly have no idea how lucky you are to have a boyfriend whose daughter embraces your presence. You aren't obligated to be affectionate with her, that's your choice. But don't make them feel weird or guilty about loving one another and loving to show it. It's just a phase anyway, people hold their parents less and less as they get older. So let them both enjoy it while it lasts.

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