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    Pompanomom's Avatar
    Pompanomom Posts: 10, Reputation: 2
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    #1

    Apr 15, 2008, 08:40 AM
    Slow draining vessel sink
    I've read (all?) the questions and answers regarding slow draining vessel sinks but I'm still hoping for some help.

    Just totally gutted our master bathroom -- down to the studs. Rebuilt everything and purchased a vessel sink (and custom vanity) and the sink drains slowly. Changed the piping from the tail to the wall and it still drains slowly. Installed an AVV (?) between the wall and the trap and it still drains slowly. Changed the piping from 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" between the tail and the wall and it still drains slowly. Changed the faucet fixture and the sink still drains slowly. Snaked the pipe into the wall -- no clogs. No problem with the toilet or shower. The only thing we haven't done is changed the drain fixture -- it's a pop-up; but even when we remove the mushroom cap, the sink still drains slowly.

    Apparently vessel sinks have a big problem draining. Has anyone come up with a new / better solution? My husband wants to break out the wall and increase the size of the pipes. I want to sell the house.

    Please help!
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #2

    Apr 15, 2008, 09:35 AM
    Hey Pompanomom:

    Do your sink drains look anything like these pictures.. (see below)

    Or did you guys install the pop-up assembly that came with the new faucet..
    Attached Images
      
    Pompanomom's Avatar
    Pompanomom Posts: 10, Reputation: 2
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    #3

    Apr 15, 2008, 09:38 AM
    The drain looks a little like the second photo but not quite.
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #4

    Apr 15, 2008, 09:42 AM
    I suspect you guys have the wrong pop-up asssembly in place for this type sink. Vessel sinks need vessel sink drains... if did not order one special or sink did not come with one... OR, in other words, if you used the pop-up that came with the faucet you purchased, then you need to order a vessel sink drain assembly.

    Let me know... Mark
    Pompanomom's Avatar
    Pompanomom Posts: 10, Reputation: 2
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    #5

    Apr 15, 2008, 11:57 AM
    We're using the drain that the sink place sold us (we also purchased the faucet from the same store) BUT I noticed that the drain in the second photo has an opening in the side of the pipe. Is that opening positioned inside the sink or UNDER the sink -- I couldn't tell by the photo (probably a dumb question)?
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #6

    Apr 15, 2008, 02:54 PM
    Never a dumb question... ;)

    All assemblies such as these has that hole in the side (you don't see it cause it is inside sink).

    I would have you call the place you purchased faucet/sink and ask them directly if they provided you with a VESSEL SINK DRAIN. They may tell you they have never had an issue, but question will still remain the same from you... IS this a vessel sink drain..

    If not, need to order a vessel sink drain/pop-up. If so... then get back to us and we will see what we can think of... Mark
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
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    #7

    Apr 15, 2008, 04:59 PM
    Hi Mom,
    Mark's thinking the same thing I am. And that's that you have the wrong drain installed. Would it be possible to send us a few pictures. One of the top and another of the bottom. Thanks, Tom
    hkstroud's Avatar
    hkstroud Posts: 11,929, Reputation: 899
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    #8

    Apr 15, 2008, 08:55 PM
    I'll be very interested in the outcome of this. I have someone who wants me to install a vessel sink. Since I know nothing about them I went shopping with him at the local HD store.
    What he wanted they had on display, but we were told was a special order item, I found the faucet he wanted on the shelf but it was a different and lower price. I began opening boxes and not only found parts missing but that the drain was different. What he wanted was call a mushroom drain. Tried to get manager to substitute parts but no joy. The mushroom drain cost an additional $45. We decided to shop elsewhere. Have not yet made the purchase. I was not paying particular attention at the time but I'm pretty sure that the drain that came with the faucet was 1 1/4" and the $45 one was 1 1/2".
    Vessel sinks have no overflow and of course are glass, therefore transparent, and using a drain with an overflow opening would not be desirable. The flip type drain stopper would have course would drain considerable slower.
    iamgrowler's Avatar
    iamgrowler Posts: 1,421, Reputation: 110
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    #9

    Apr 16, 2008, 06:17 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by hkstroud
    The flip type drain stopper would of course would drain considerable slower.
    Actually, the roll top drain (minus the overflow hole, of course) pictured in Marks post is the best type of drain for a vessel sink; The roll top offers more drainage surface area than pop-up, grid, twist-n-turn or mushroom drains.

    But still, the best way to drain a vessel sink is to use a glue type (ABS or PVC) p-trap and substitute the traps 90 for a Sanitary Tee -- Installing an AAV in the top of the Tee will substitute for the missing overflows venting action.
    Pompanomom's Avatar
    Pompanomom Posts: 10, Reputation: 2
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    #10

    Apr 16, 2008, 06:34 AM
    This is what our sink looks like -- not a true vessel sink. Glass one piece countertop and sink. Exposed piping shows below the drawer. This is what our drain looks like. There is no overflow hole in the drain or sink. Do we need the type of drain that has an overflow hole?
    Attached Images
  1. File Type: pdf sink.pdf (32.8 KB, 552 views)
  2. massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #11

    Apr 16, 2008, 11:53 AM
    Hmmm... I am afraid to say that is a vessel sink drain... :(

    I thought we had a good answer for you here. Darn it!

    Growler mentioned the AAV to be installed between the trap and the wall... but you guys already did that didn't you..

    Last and final thing to try in my opinion is to try to snake that drain again. Rent an electric snake (see pic.) and remember when snaking sink drains, sometimes the snake will go up instead of down.. so figure on going in/out 5-10 times until something shows up on end of snake.

    I am afraid that is all I have at this time.

    Try to snake the drain again... many people give up to easily on drain cleaning, figure it is an in/out thing... like I said, it's not!

    Please let us know what happens... Thank you.

    Also, please wait for others to chime in on this.. I know they will have some thoughts for you as well...

    Good luck... Mark
    Attached Images
     
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
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    #12

    Apr 16, 2008, 12:13 PM
    This don't look like a vessel sink to me. Although I've been running into new construction that has lavatories with out the overflow in the bowl. If you have no overflow feature then I would treat it like a vessel sink. Regards, Tom
    DaveGadgeteer's Avatar
    DaveGadgeteer Posts: 2, Reputation: 1
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    #13

    Mar 2, 2009, 04:30 PM

    The most common problem with these sinks is they need to let the air bubble between the sink and the liquid in the trap escape (surface tension makes the water plug the grid and trap the air in the vertical pipe). So you need a valve that lets air flow OUT freely (not IN under a vacuum, like an AAV), and you need to connect it anywhere between the drain pipe height but on the sink side of the trap, and the sink drain grid. And you want the valve to close if liquid runs into it (e.g. if someone uses a plunger in the sink and the drain or trap is clogged). There are valves like this, automatic float valves, used for letting air bubbles out of solar water heater systems and hot water radiator heating systems, but they aren't optimized for this application. I'm working on using a ping pong ball inside some PVC pipe fittings to do the job...
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #14

    Mar 2, 2009, 05:06 PM
    Hi Dave:

    Vessel sink drains have improved greatly in the last year or so, so don't work too hard on next gadget... ;)

    The mushroom drain and that flip-top drain seem to have fixed most of the complaints we have heard of.

    Thanks...

    MARK
    gerryfey's Avatar
    gerryfey Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
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    #15

    Oct 5, 2010, 08:17 PM
    Hello all. I have been battling this problem for the last two days, and I believe I've finally solved the problem. I tried the pop-up drain, and that still didn't allow enough air through the holes, so I tried one more time at Home Depot and found this: Dearborn Brass Two piece Less overflow chain and stopper drain. It's a 1-1/4" x 5" 20-Gauge C.O. Plug drain. It's part number 763K-1. Basically, it's a drain with no overflow holes, very down-and-dirty basic. Here it is: http://kscdirect.com/item/DEA%2B763K-1/DEARBORN%2BBRASS_CO%2BPLUG%2B1.25%2BX%2B5%2B2PC%25 2C%2BBUDGET%250A

    It doesn't look like much, and it isn't, but the key is, it's got huge holes for the air to get in as the water goes down the drain. It's not pretty, but it does the job. Hope this helps.
    gerryfey's Avatar
    gerryfey Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
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    #16

    Oct 5, 2010, 08:23 PM
    Hello all. I have been battling this problem for the last two days, and I believe I've finally solved the problem. I tried the pop-up drain, and that still didn't allow enough air through the holes, so I tried one more time at Home Depot and found this: Dearborn Brass Two piece Less overflow chain and stopper drain. It's a 1-1/4" x 5" 20-Gauge C.O. Plug drain. It's part number 763K-1. Basically, it's a drain with no overflow holes, very down-and-dirty basic. Here it is: http://kscdirect.com/item/DEA%2B763K-1/DEARBORN%2BBRASS_CO%2BPLUG%2B1.25%2BX%2B5%2B2PC%25 2C%2BBUDGET%250A

    It doesn't look like much, and it isn't, but the key is, it's got huge holes for the air to get in as the water goes down the drain. It's not pretty, but it does the job. Hope this helps.
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #17

    Oct 6, 2010, 04:39 AM

    Hi Gerry...

    That drain assembly is really a last resort as it really doesn't have any holes to stop "stuff" from going down the drain, but it is still great as a last resort, for sure, so thanks for posting on it!

    The flip top or mushroom vessel sink drains are still the best when you can find them... ;)

    Thanks...

    M ark
    gerryfey's Avatar
    gerryfey Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
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    #18

    Oct 6, 2010, 07:44 AM
    Hey Mark,

    You're right, it's definitely last resort, and with my wife's large amount of hair going down the sink, I'm sure I'm going to have to be cleaining it out constantly... but I had had enough, and I couldn't find a good mushroom sink that didn't cost a ton of money.
    tinkerken's Avatar
    tinkerken Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
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    #19

    Jan 1, 2011, 08:49 PM
    I had the same problem and after reading the suggestions I enlarged some of the holes in the drain screen. It worked like a charm! I couldn't simply enlarge all the holes so I elongated a few adjoining ones and tried to make it look attractive in the process. I first used a drill bit the same size as the holes and tilted sideways to do most of the work and then finished it off with files. It sure beats going through all the work, time and cost to replace it with a pop-up! I hope I can attach a couple of images. (If they appear here it obviously did)
    tinkerken's Avatar
    tinkerken Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
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    #20

    Jan 2, 2011, 05:08 PM

    I finally figured out how to attach images (change to "old style" website version) so the advanced button would appear. Here are the before and after images. I think I prefer the look of the 'after' strainer more. :)
    Attached Images
      

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