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    Sadmom12's Avatar
    Sadmom12 Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Aug 27, 2010, 06:42 AM
    My 23 year old daughter won't talk to me
    My 23 year old daughter has a habit of falling in love early on in her relationships, moving in with them and then finding out who they really are and then moving out. She has done this several times since she was 17. I know she has "daddy" issues and her step father and I have tried to counsel her along the way and we have been extremely close her whole life. Now she met a new guy 4 months ago and moved in with him and his mother a month ago. He is 30 and we were very skeptical obviously, but she said his place had mold and her landlords were divorcing and she had to move out asap. But I helped her find a place for them to rent and I know I was wrong now. The last time she moved out of here to be on her own, she had set clear goals that she wanted to be alone for a year to get to know herself. She wanted to be married before she moved out of her own place. She told this guy her goals from the beginning and yet she still fell into her same routine of falling head over heels and that he is her sole mate. 2 weeks ago we got talking and I found out that she hadn't been truly happy because he was always mad and she had to watch what she would say to not set him off. She lets him drive her car that is in her name to work every day. She used her credit to finance his dental work, and will use her credit to help him start his business because he has NO credit. He is a compulsive storyteller and we have caught him in several lies. She was ready to leave him and we were going to again, help her move. She talked to him and they fought and she was leaving, but then of course he apologized and said he felt horrible and that she did nothing wrong, so she believed him and is still there. She had admitted that they had not been using protection for a few months. She wants to have a baby and "live happily ever" so bad, that she is rushing again too fast and in the past she has told me to please tell her when I notice her falling into her bad pattern. I have repeatedly told her that I am very concerned about her trying to get pregnant, offering to use her credit for him to start his business and that he is a manipulator and controller. What normal 30 year old would try to get someone pregnant after 2 months? And drive her car when he has his own old truck to drive, and use her credit!! He already has 2 children with 2 different woman and doesn't even see his oldest. He does have his youngest every weekend. Now she won't talk to us and says that we are the only ones who don't support their relationship. I texted her and said that I'm only doing what she asked me to do and that I love her and will always be here for her. She texted "just let me be me." My heart hurts so bad and my Husband tried to call her Father to discuss the situation because we know he doesn't know the whole story, but her Father won't talk to us. We feel so alone in parenting her and I know I need to let her learn on her own, but her credit is going to be destroyed, she'll end up a single mother and I don't know what to do. Do I just not call her and see if she will ever talk to us again? Help! We love her so much!
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #2

    Aug 27, 2010, 06:48 AM

    If she's an adult, which she apparently is, making bad decisions all you can do is offer her love and support. You've tried to change her mind and that hasn't worked.

    I'd keep the lines of communication open and hope she sees the "light."

    She could always try counselling but it sounds like she won't go.
    Sadmom12's Avatar
    Sadmom12 Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Aug 27, 2010, 07:01 AM
    She has also told me that her boyfriend knows that we don't like him. I'm pretty sure she has told him everything that we have said and he is telling her that they are sole mates and they will prove to everyone that they will be together forever. Thanks Judykaytee for the advice, I just hope one day she will answer my calls or texts.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #4

    Aug 27, 2010, 07:03 AM

    Yes, this sounds like a disaster in the making but I think you have to just be supportive, keep the door open, don't let her be in a place where she has no support and HAS to stay with this guy.

    Sad -
    Jake2008's Avatar
    Jake2008 Posts: 6,721, Reputation: 3460
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    #5

    Aug 27, 2010, 05:49 PM
    I am sorry you're going through this, she's still so young, but old enough that you can't do much.

    I suspect that this will get worse before it gets better, in that the boyfriend seems controlling in that she has to watch what she says and does as to 'not set him off', as you said. I say this only meaning that if it is an indicator of his character, and your daughter has a baby by him, she will need you more than ever. If he already has 2 kids with 2 different mothers, and a track record that is at best, questionable, her having a baby will almost certainly involve you and your husband to some degree.

    The only thing I can think to add to what Judy has already wisely said, is, knowing what the writing on the wall is saying, with or without pregnancy, expect that history will repeat itself, and consider setting some very stict guidelines. She should expect to pay rent, a portion of the utilities, her own phone, gas, insurance, etc. I presume she's working and has some idea of the cost of supporting herself. If she doesn't, she needs to.

    She needs to take responsibility for herself, and I hope you don't fall into the trap of bailing her out. You are doing her no favours in providing financial support under any circumstances, while she continues to make bad ones on her own. You are throwing good money after bad.

    If she has to learn the hard way about finances, and her boyfriend destroys her credit- so be it. It is her credit, and hers to lose. Let her learn how to deal with it. It is a consequence, and none of us get through life unscathed by making bad mistakes, no matter how well intentioned.

    Also, as Judy said, keep the lifeline going, she will need you. But, at the same time, I would advise you to separate what you can do for her, with what you should do for her. Allowing her to take her own lumps will help her later on to be a more responsible adult.
    Sadmom12's Avatar
    Sadmom12 Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #6

    Aug 28, 2010, 06:35 PM

    Thank you :)
    Sadmom12's Avatar
    Sadmom12 Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Sep 8, 2010, 02:41 PM
    A lot has happened since my first post. I took the advice of both of you and I emailed her and apologized for saying some of the things that I said that were out of line. We made up and she said that her and her boyfriend talked about things and they would just take everything one day at a time and let what happens happen. We still didn't like the idea at all, but didn't tell her that,she already knows where we stand. The very next day, she called me and told me to sit down and that she just took a pregnancy test and was pregnant. I was speechless but not surprised. She didn't sound very excited at the time. Our relationship has been back to normal and we have tolerated her boyfriend and he really seems to be trying to make her happy. My daughter has been extremely sick with morning sickness and she called me today crying and said she hates how she is sick all the time and wants to crawl into a black hole and die. I rushed right over to her house thinking that it was just pregnancy blues, but then she started talking to me and said that she is not happy and she doesn't love him and she can't do this anymore. We spent most of the day talking and I just listened and didn't want to persuade her at all. She said she is done and she called him and told him she was done and of course he freaked out and said some really rude things to her but she didn't let it bother her. She now just wants out and said she isn't even attracted to him at all. So, my question now is what do we do? She hasn't asked us for anything yet and even said she doesn't expect us to do anything because she made the choices and has to deal with her consequences. I thought about charging her rent & utilities, but then realized if she lives here, she won't qualify for medicaid or food stamps or childcare. She does have a job, but no insurance and I know she can't do everything on her own. I told her that I would babysit maybe if the state could pay me, because I won't do it for free. It sounds bad but I don't expect to do that and she doesn't expect me to do that. Sorry, I seem to be going on forever.. I love her so much and just don't want to contribute to the cycle of her life how it's been so far.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #8

    Sep 8, 2010, 03:05 PM

    I think you contribute enough to keep her tail out of the fire BUT encourage her to make her own way in life.

    There is a difference between helping and enabling and you will have to figure that out.

    Does she know that she is tied to the father for the next 18+ years (of the child's life)? I'd make that impression on her, too.
    Jake2008's Avatar
    Jake2008 Posts: 6,721, Reputation: 3460
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    #9

    Sep 8, 2010, 03:20 PM
    I'm going to bring up something that will be uncomfortable.

    Has there been any discussion about abortion. Has she considered adoption.
    Sadmom12's Avatar
    Sadmom12 Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    Sep 8, 2010, 04:19 PM

    We will encourage her to get her own place and help her move but that's about it. I will always be there for her for advice, if she will take it :) Also, he offered to help pay for an abortion and she is against it and it made her so mad that she told him he doesn't need to even be involved in the child's life. Things are heated right now, hopefully they work out a solution.
    J_9's Avatar
    J_9 Posts: 40,298, Reputation: 5646
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    #11

    Sep 8, 2010, 06:05 PM

    JudyKayTee agrees : I was going to come back and say the abortion word - but you beat me to it. Good question. Also a good question would be having the daughter's tubes tied.
    Tubal ligation is out of the question until the daughter has two children AND is over the age of 25 in most states.
    Jake2008's Avatar
    Jake2008 Posts: 6,721, Reputation: 3460
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    #12

    Sep 8, 2010, 06:13 PM
    Well, with those bases covered, I hope she has a healthy pregnancy, and produces a nice big grandbaby for you.

    She is very lucky to have you in her corner.

    This will be a difficult road, at least in the beginning. I hope you'll keep posting with the progress as things move ahead.

    Thinking about you, and wishing you only the best.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #13

    Sep 9, 2010, 05:19 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by J_9 View Post
    Tubal ligation is out of the question until the daughter has two children AND is over the age of 25 in most states.

    I obviously didn't know this - I thought it was a case-by-case determination and that various Doctors have different opinions.

    Thanks for the correction.

    Do you know what the basis for the "2 children, over 25" rule of thumb is?
    J_9's Avatar
    J_9 Posts: 40,298, Reputation: 5646
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    #14

    Sep 9, 2010, 06:04 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by JudyKayTee View Post
    I obviously didn't know this - I thought it was a case-by-case determination and that various Doctors have different opinions.

    Thanks for the correction.

    Do you know what the basis for the "2 children, over 25" rule of thumb is?
    Once a tubal is done it should be considered permanent as reversals are not guaranteed to work. Should a woman have it done at too early an age, or with one or no children, it's quite possible this would be permanent.

    I'm having a hard time finding the laws (been working 12+ hours) so I will suffice it to say that most doctors will not perform a BTL (bilateral tubal ligation) on a woman under a specific age without a certain number of children. Where I am the age limit is 23 and 2 children.

    If she is too young and/or has too few children and changes her mind later, there is no guarantee that she will have children and most insurances do not cover reversal.
    Sadmom12's Avatar
    Sadmom12 Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #15

    Sep 16, 2010, 07:03 AM

    An update... We talked to her about living here with us and paying us rent & contributing for food. My gut told me that this was the best option for now, so we can help her through the pregnancy and guide her even though she is 23 down the "right" path. She agreed and we got her all moved in and really feel good about it. She is qualified to get free counseling through our state because she is a "single mom", and she agreed that she needs counseling. Her ex is in my opinion very mentally abusive and I have learned more and more about what he put her through since she has been living here. We looked up online signs of a mentally abusive partner and out of the 20 indicators, she said 19 of them applied to their relationship! Counseling will be great for her and she put in for a protective order against him yesterday because we are all concerned about what he will do. Just waiting for the judge to approve it. They advised us to tell all of our neighbors his information in case something happens, as we have no other enemies. He blames us for "brainwashing" her and of course takes no responsibility for what he has done, which is normal for a mentally abusive person.
    Jake2008's Avatar
    Jake2008 Posts: 6,721, Reputation: 3460
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    #16

    Sep 16, 2010, 07:22 AM
    You have made a lot of progress, and a dozen roses for you!!

    I hope the counselling takes place soon. As good as the information you give her, and all that you have already done to get her out of where she was, and into the safety of your home, she needs to hear from a counsellor how to learn to stay strong, and build the skills she needs, in order not to go back to him.

    My guess is he will not want to give up so easily, and if she still loves him, despite what she has done and said recently, she may allow herself some contact with him, because of the baby and that may be an excuse, and a reason, for her hedging down the road.

    Many of us here wonder what happened to the people who post for help, and it is really great of you to take the time to post an update.

    Continued success to all of you!
    Sadmom12's Avatar
    Sadmom12 Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #17

    Oct 1, 2010, 01:03 PM

    We had to go to court to enforce the protective order a few days ago, and my daughter couldn't afford an attorney and there were no available ones through our state to represent her. Her ex hired an attorney and was going to make her pay the fees if they won. His attorney made a deal with her that they would do a "joint" restraining order because his client didn't want to cause any problems. We received his documentation of his side of the story and it was all lies. He acted like he did nothing wrong and that my daughter was the controlling one. We know now that he was once part of the Nevada Aryan Nation and we are scared to death because 2 guys stopped by her work yesterday looking for her. The cops can't do anything because they didn't get a license plate #. He is going to use his attorney to fight to get to see the baby once it is born and it is such a scary mess. He knows where we live and has crooked friends and I just needed to vent to someone. I am terrified and really don't know how to handle this situation now because we are all in danger and the law seems to not do anything until something bad happens. Thanks for letting me vent. Any ideas are welcome.
    Jake2008's Avatar
    Jake2008 Posts: 6,721, Reputation: 3460
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    #18

    Oct 1, 2010, 02:09 PM
    You are one tough cookie. You remind me of me.

    What I would do, is get a notebook, and record. Date, time, incident (even a driveby), any phone calls, unusual activity, showing up at a workplace of any of you.

    Try to put a diary together, of what you know about his activities, i.e. Aryan Nation (good God). His involvement, participation in meetings, etc. Who he associated with, and their involvement, any memberships, etc. If your daughter has first hand information on observing any of their activities, document that as well.

    If she can summarize her relationship with him, particularly in the last year, and honestly be able to provide a written diary of their life together, that would include, any and all violence, threats of violence, controlling behaviour, subsance abuse, etc. have that in writing. It will probably take her a few days, but an honest summary will go a long way.

    Why I urge the documentation with as much detail as possible is, without it, you cannot provide the same information, in court, which only allows for limited explanations.

    It isn't enough to say who he is, and what type of person he is, or why you fear him, you have to be able to provide information. It may not necessarily 'prove' anything, but it will imply substance to back up what type of person he is. That is an impression that will be considered, should custody/visitation become an issue.

    I have personally done this, with my daughter, who was 16 and involved with a drug dealing 20 year old. I won't go into detail, except I went to great lengths to to keep him away from my daughter, and, being a licensed counsellor, I knew the importance of detailed notes.

    Remember you always have the 'Mom' card as I call it. I often stood up in court, raised my hand, and asked the Judge if I could speak. I was never once refused.

    For now, try not to worry, you have a restraining order in place, and don't hesitate to call the police if you need to. I'm sure they are familiar with him, and his friends, and what they will do, that otherwise 'normal' people would not. Don't be bullied, but don't take any chances either.

    You may want to add a recording device to your phone to record any conversations that do get through (such as the one with your husband). That too, is good to be able to present, as a concerned mother.

    I think when you get those records going, and you are all together on keeping it current, and are cognizant at all times, that you need to be aware, you will be okay. You are in a place where you can be pro active, rather than reactive, should he attempt to contact any of you.

    The only other thing I was thinking with the above advice, is, should any involvement with the local CPS happen, remember you will have all your notes, comments, concerns, and a written history, to assist them in determining whether he is a fit parent.

    Hope to hear from you again. Stay strong.
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    bradginrook Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
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    #19

    Apr 5, 2012, 09:09 AM
    I'm so sorry but I know the feelings oh so much... I have 5 grown kids and my oldest daughter 31 will only talk to me when she is not in a relationship, mind you yes I say things bluntly not to hurt her bad unfortunately I stick my foot in my mouth quite a bit, I say I'm sorry right of way but she will not forgive me when I say one thing she doesn't like but only when she has a serious relationship other wise she does... she has done this from her first boyfriend on and as I said she is 31, I'm sad for you I feel this pain every two years when her relationships seem to end... I think if you can afford it which I cant, seek family counseling it can only help... please if you need a friend let me know because I don't know who to go to when she tares my heart out which she did 3 days ago so I'm sure for two years or so I won't hear from her... I also wish I would not accept her back so she doesn't keep doing this but each time I have my arms open... ugh, Ginny

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