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    berna555's Avatar
    berna555 Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Sep 9, 2009, 03:57 AM
    Son in law problems
    Hello out there,
    I have seen a lot of comments on problematic daughters in law but none on sons in law.
    The problems I have with my son in law are almost the same as many mothers in law
    Have with their daughers in law. Before my daughter became a mother to a lovely three year old boy I did not notice much apart from that he was a bit special and very close to his family. What disturbs me about him is that he is rude and gets annoyed on the phone when I (or my husband) phone and want to speak with my daughter which I do as little as possible. When we are there which is not very often either he does not show off the first 15 minutes (to show us he does not give a sh... about us). I think it is rude and disrespectful. I do not expect him to like us but I would like some respect which we do not get. Lately he has been like that to our other daughter and she is fed up with him. I think he lacks social intelligence. This of course makes everything more difficult us being grand parents now and having family relations. It seems that his parents come whenever they please and as my daughter and husband have very little time as they both work, the time they have is occupied by his mother and father and other family members. She sees my grandson very often. I feel ignored by them as if we don't exist. I worry a lot and it puts a lot of strain on my nerves. Sometimes I think maybe my daughter prefers her in-laws to us. That is hard to bear because then I have to ask myself where did I go wrong. I thought we had a good relationship with our daughter. Now it is as if this woman tries to pull my daughter over to their family. I know it looks as if I am jealous but I am just very hurt and angry at this woman for her inconsideration. Sometimes I just want to give up the battle (a terrible word - I don't want it to be a battle). My daughter is expecting another baby and I am not even looking forward to it as I expect the whole thing will even get worse. To his advantage I must say that he seems to get on well with my daughter (or she is not telling me everything) and seems to be a good father. I dread for the future. Can somebody give me som good advice? Should I just give up? I mean I cannot change him. I don't know what to do.
    redhed35's Avatar
    redhed35 Posts: 4,221, Reputation: 1910
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    #2

    Sep 9, 2009, 04:07 AM

    A difficult situation for you.

    For the most part,try and keep an open communication with your daughter,whatever influence he has over her as her husband.. well.it is as it is.

    As much as it urks you,try not to be argue with him or bad mouth him to your daughter.

    Offer to babysit your grandchild,maybe they woulod like to go out.
    If they decline the offer,leave it on the table,maybe they will take up the offer when the baby comes.

    Don't interfer with them,keep your opinions to yourself,I know how that sounds,but I mean it in a nice way.

    Unless you are asked directly for advice or an opinion,don't offer it.

    Arrange a time during the week when to phone your daughter,she will be expecting it and so will he,he sounds a little controlling from your post so let him think he has a little control.
    berna555's Avatar
    berna555 Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Sep 9, 2009, 06:16 AM
    Hej Redhed35
    Thanks for your comment. Well I knew all along that the bedst thing to do is "nothing".
    Also the most difficult. I supposte for our duaghters sake we have to put up with everything.
    redhed35's Avatar
    redhed35 Posts: 4,221, Reputation: 1910
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    #4

    Sep 9, 2009, 06:19 AM

    You should not put up with being disrespected... choose your battles carefully and try not to alienate your daughter.

    Don't give him any ammunition against you,or reason to question your motives.
    berna555's Avatar
    berna555 Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Sep 9, 2009, 06:26 AM
    Should I say something to my daughter why we keep such a distance (because he
    Talks to us the way he does and seems so displeased when we show up). I think she knows but does not know what to do about it. Also she hates conflicts. Well the alternative for us if we do not want to be treated disrespectful is to keep away and that is difficult. It would suit his mother very well if we just disappeared then she can have the grand children all to herself.
    redhed35's Avatar
    redhed35 Posts: 4,221, Reputation: 1910
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    #6

    Sep 9, 2009, 06:32 AM

    For me,I would see it as your daughter would defend her husband,proper order really,could you arrange a shopping visit or maybe she could visit you,make a fuss over your grandson.

    Don't put pressure on your daughter,really no one knows what goes on behind closed doors,if your son in law does not like you,most likely she knows this,its up to her to say she wants you in her life.

    Keep things on an even keel,be open and nice,but do not let him disrespect you,would he do the same thing to a stranger?

    If he does,do stand up for yourself,but you don't have to argue with him.
    berna555's Avatar
    berna555 Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Sep 9, 2009, 06:42 AM
    It is not that easy not to let him disrespect me. If we visit and he keeps busy somewhere
    In the house without coming to greet us we get very annoyed but do not say anything because of our daughter and what an afternoon that would be if we said anything to him.
    I feel we have to watch our steps all the time. It is so exhausting and it is as if we cannot be ourselves. I know next time he says something to me without my daughter being present he will get a piece of my mind.
    On the other hand, as I wrote he lacks social intelligence and never does anything wrong.
    After the things he said to my other daughter he wrote her a mail. Not apologizing no,
    Just something about misunderstanding bla bla and only because his wife, our daughter
    Was distressed about the whole thing. You can see what we are dealing with here.
    I am going on a long holiday on Saturday and I really need to get away because this thing keeps going round in my head and I can see no light in the tunnel.
    Jake2008's Avatar
    Jake2008 Posts: 6,721, Reputation: 3460
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    #8

    Sep 12, 2009, 10:16 PM
    I look at this situation a bit differently. In particular, because you and your son in law, have a relationship, and as bad as it is, your daughter is unwilling to expect him to change, so he's comfortable in the relationship he has with you.

    I also wonder why you don't speak with him directly. That example you sited, of him going elsewhere when you are around. I would have followed him, and just asked him point blank, "What is it that I'm doing to cause this rift between us."

    For you to be in the middle of the two of them, puts pressure on them, and their marriage. And that is where you are when you deal only with your daughter, and not him directly.

    You are also expecting that talking to your daughter, and she will talk to him, will only continue to put her on the spot.

    At best you are getting third had information.

    He may not be telling your daughter the truth as he sees it, because he knows it would upset her. He could be keeping his distance because of a misunderstanding; it's possible.

    Failing to address the person directly who controls access to grandchildren, is the one you need to talk to.

    If you can clear the air with him, all the better. But, be prepared for what he has to say, because you may not like it or agree with it. Whatever his reasons are, you will have to find a way to accept them, so that you can be active in their lives again.

    Even if he forever keeps you at arm's length, your daughter will be happier, and you will be too. You don't have to like her choice in men even, just respect him as the decision maker, and how you handle him, will determine how big a role you will play.
    madhatter22's Avatar
    madhatter22 Posts: 9, Reputation: 3
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    #9

    Sep 16, 2009, 11:29 AM

    Hi, I just posted a message about this similar situation. We are totally being left out of our daughters life because he husband wants her to be only a part of "his" family. My feelings are so hurt that she chooses her MIL over her own mother, that I feel like depression is setting in and I am not going to be able to cope with any of this. She has chosen to be with them and not any of us and we have approached her with that, but her husband is not willing to talk to us or try to work anything out. So, where do we go from here? We all live in the same town and I'm pretty sure this year even the holidays will be just my daughter and grandkids for an hour or so, which is so painful because they are in such a hurry to get to his parents house and spend the whole 2 days with them when they see them every day of their life. The thought of giving up completely has certainly crossed my mind many times, but just seeing the grandkids for 3 hrs one night a week is probably better than never! The MIL sees them every day, babysits when they go out on weekends, sees them during the weekend, holidays, etc. We feel very sad over this, but it just seems like there is no answer. My husband says that all the couselling in the world won't change someone else and that I need to figure out that they don't want us in their lives and that until I accept that, I will be hurt over and over. I know this is true, but if I totally give up, I feel that is will be so hard to fix then someday when they are both so stubborn that I'm sure that's the way "he" wants it. I share your pain, and if you have found a way to deal with all this, please let me know. I am looking for any kind of help I can get.
    jenniepepsi's Avatar
    jenniepepsi Posts: 4,042, Reputation: 533
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    #10

    Sep 17, 2009, 07:18 PM

    Are you my mother? Sounds an awefull lot like you are speaking about my soon to be ex husband.


    Its been my experience, that I'm sorry to say, there isn't much you can do :( you can't make your daughter leave him. You can't make him give you the respect you deserve. Its all on him and your daughter. They either work it out and grow together, or they don't and get a divorce...

    I would suggest you talk to your daughter about talking to her husband about marriage counseling.

    Good luck hon. I'm sorry your in the position.
    berna555's Avatar
    berna555 Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #11

    Sep 30, 2009, 12:26 AM
    Thank you jake2008 for your reply. I guess you have a point there. Speaking to him directly would be the best but I don't know if I have the courage. On the other hand keeping your mouth shut all the time also makes me so frustrated.
    However I have been so frustrated that I wrote a letter to my daughter how I felt about the whole situation. I did not say too much about the in laws and son in law but wrote that we felt that we were not allowed to be part of their family because the other family were always there. It seems that we have misread the whole situation a little bit. His family is just so keen to always help and be part of their family that if we want the same we have to contact them more, offering our help and so on. Our daughter does not think we invite them often enough which is true because I just take it for granted that if she wants to come she will come but what she wants is an invitation. I also told her how upset we get when our son in law disappears as soon as we arrive. Apparently my daughter has talked to him about it (it does not seem he takes it seriously).
    Anyway it has been good to bring it out in the open and I realise that my daughter accepts him as he is and they are happy together. What I can do is accept him and his strange ways (unless he gets too rude) and not take it too seriously. Just not expect too much of our relationship. According to our daughter he likes us (that is what he says) but maybe a strange way of showing it.
    berna555's Avatar
    berna555 Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #12

    Sep 30, 2009, 12:45 AM
    Hello madhatter 22
    Yes it is very hurtful when your own daughter seems to prefer her in laws.

    The only thing to to is to write or talk to your daughter how it makes you feel. She must understand that you are a grandmother who wants to see her grand children as often as possible. Maybe there are some problems which you did not know about. Anyway it is best to bring it out in the open. Also invite them over and arrange for things you can do with your grandkids (without parents). I am sure they love you and it would be stupid of your daughter not to let them see you.
    It would be nice if our daughters could put their foot down sometimes if the visit once more goes to the in laws but I do not know if they don't consider it as a problem, if it is easier not to upset the husband or if they even prefer to be with the inlaws (that really hurts).
    I really feel for you for I know exactly how it feels. Just do your best. Maybe it will work out. First of all tell your daughter how you feel.
    Jake2008's Avatar
    Jake2008 Posts: 6,721, Reputation: 3460
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    #13

    Sep 30, 2009, 08:04 AM
    I don't think this explains his behavior.

    There are excuses, and him denying being rude, but he is rude, and he knows it. I doubt that if his family were treated the way he treats you, that they'd be visiting too often either.

    I wonder if your daughter will get to the point where there is too much involvement in her life with his family.

    I agree, invite them over, and even extend an invitaition for Thanksgiving, so he knows it won't be six months before he has to go over again. If you have family nearby, invite them over too, and have a houseful.

    See how he behaves then.

    Instinct tells me he's a bit of a mama's boy, and your daughter knows that his family comes with the package. I would imagine it is easier to make excuses for him rather than face the consequences of saying 'no' to them.

    But I agree, see if your increased effort to spend more time with them might not thaw him out a bit.
    madhatter22's Avatar
    madhatter22 Posts: 9, Reputation: 3
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    #14

    Sep 30, 2009, 08:36 AM

    It would be great if an invitation to our house was an option. We have already talked to our daughter and she has indicated that she cannot do anything with him, so it is really just easier to just not fight with him. His mom babysits the two grandkids everyday, sometimes all day, every weekend when they go somewhere or out, so she is very involved in their lives and welcomed to be there. She goes right to their house and almost lives with them just to help take care of the kids everyday. How easy does it get for my daughter. Whereas that is not the case with us. We are never invited and he makes us feel very uncomfortable when we are there for a birthday party for the kids. She did put her foot down a bit and we do get to see the kids one evening during the week. We do enjoy that, but sometimes I feel too like they will never know us like they do the other side of the family, so what is really the use of trying so hard to be close. Our son in law dislikes my husband and as we all know, that didn't just happen. Because of events in the past before they got married, he feels like we don't like him which is somewhat true, but we are willing to try to make amends and have tried, with no luck. So, I am just looking for some kind of advice on how to stay sane in this situation since we all live in the same town, and I have to see things everyday that hurt me. One comment I got was that I cannot make her leave him and I cannot make him give us the respect we deserve, but my way of dealing with all this is, is just to try to pretend that my daughter doesn't exist, never ask any questions, never pry into her life and just pick up the kids when I am allowed to and have no connection with her whatsoever. That seems to be working for her and I am just making myself hard toward her. May sound cruel, but there is really no other way to "get over it" as I am told to do by her because "it is what it is." I haven't cried for a week since I have gotten comments on this site about other people that are hurting like I am, so this seems to be helping me some. There are many books out there, they are hard to find on "son in law problems" but one good one is "don't blame your mother" which I just finished. It still hurts every day, but all I can hope is that some day she realizes what she has done by leaving our whole side of the family out and just concentrating on his side. Not sure she cares because her life seems simple this way-only having to please certain people. But, it certainly is a painful situation that the other people in her life feel. It sounds also like I am jealous and maybe to some extent I am, but to see her and her MIL together raising the kids, doing things together for years and her choosing it makes me feel like she has stolen my daughter and I feel empty without her. Probably this is just an instinct and hopefully norma. I have talked to her about that, but it really didn't matter. So, life needs to go on. I am trying to fill my days with other things, but it is on my mind constantly. How much does a parent have to endure? Maybe someday she will know if her children every treat her like that. And yes, if our SIL treated his parents like he treats us, they for sure wouldn't be visiting very often either. Thank you for your comments everyone and I still welcome any "word of wisdom or advice."
    berna555's Avatar
    berna555 Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #15

    Oct 7, 2009, 03:15 AM
    To madhatter22
    There is not much you can do about how your kids feel about you but no matter what has happened in the past for the grand children's sake it should be possible for adults to behave in an adult way. Maybe one way to go is to talk to your son in law. If he feels you do not like him he is probably taking it out on you now by not wanting to have contact with you. You cannot change him but maybe you can come to an agreement with him that you do not have to like each other but for the grand children's sake behave in a civil way when you are together and let them see their grand parents from their mothers side. I do try
    To see the good sides my son in law he also has. There must be a reason why my daughter loves him and she has to live with him every day. One thing is for sure you cannot expect your daughter to be loyal to you instead of her husband.
    I would give it a last try by talking openly with your son in law. Maybe he has to say a few things. That might clear the air. Also invite your grand kids over as much as possible even though there is not much chance you actually come to see them. Be friendly to your
    Son in law and accept that you also might have made a few mistakes. Do everything you possible can to have a good relation. If nothing helps then I agree it might be for the best to let it go even if it causes much grief. Maybe your daughter comes to her senses when she realises that you accept the loss. All the best
    madhatter22's Avatar
    madhatter22 Posts: 9, Reputation: 3
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    #16

    Oct 19, 2009, 12:47 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by berna555 View Post
    To madhatter22
    There is not much you can do about how your kids feel about you but no matter what has happened in the past for the grand childrens sake it should be possible for adults to behave in an adult way. Maybe one way to go is to talk to your son in law. If he feels you do not like him he is probably taking it out on you now by not wanting to have contact with you. You cannot change him but maybe you can come to an agreement with him that you do not have to like each other but for the grand childrens sake behave in a civil way when you are together and let them see their grand parents from their mothers side. I do try
    to see the good sides my son in law he also has. There must be a reason why my daughter loves him and she has to live with him every day. One thing is for sure you cannot expect your daughter to be loyal to you instead of her husband.
    I would give it a last try by talking openly with your son in law. Maybe he has to say a few things. That might clear the air. Also invite your grand kids over as much as possible even though there is not much chance you actually come to see them. Be friendly to your
    son in law and accept that you also might have made a few mistakes. Do everything you possible can to have a good relation. If nothing helps then I agree it might be for the best to let it go even if it causes much grief. Maybe your daughter comes to her senses when she realises that you accept the loss. All the best
    That you for being sympathetic to my problem. It hurts so much and I think you know the pain also when your child chooses their inlaws. I am pretty much convinced that my daughter actually chooses her mother in law to be her mother figure. I raised her as a single parent until my second marriage and her stepfather treated her equal or better than his own kids, so she really doesn't have a reason to treat us like she does, but we can't seem to change anything. We do see the kids a little, and try to make the best of that, but of course seeing the kids because they are little, requires dealing with the parents to a degree. So many days I feel just like giving up on everything, but then I ask myself how hard it will be to "fix" things someday if we ever want to patch things up and have a relationship between us. This situation has caused some depression and no matter how hard you try to fill your time with other things, it seems impossible to clear your mind of what is going on day after day. My husband has no interest in trying to make things better between all of us and neither does our son in law, so we are fighting a losing battle most of the time. Most often the daughter goes with her side of the family and the son's parents feel left out. I just cannot believe my own daughter has done this to me. I try not to feel sorry for myself, but it just makes me feel like a horrible mother and no matter how much I try to be a part of her life, she is not willing to let that happen. My feeling is that her husband is just plain spoiled by his parents all his life and they still give him everything he wants and now her too, so they do not need anyone else for anything. The only consolation to all this, is that no one else likes him either other than his immediate family, so maybe we shouldn't feel so bad that he doesn't like us. My husband is very much respected where we live, so I know it isn't all him. I know there really isn't an answer to what can be done (pretty much nothing) but it helps just to be able to vent some of my frustration and know there are other people that have similar situations. I feel sometimes like I am the only one that their daughter chooses her mother in law over her own mother. Sad feeling.
    berna555's Avatar
    berna555 Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #17

    Oct 24, 2009, 12:53 PM
    To madhatter 22
    I think it is not uncommon that daughters prefer their inlaws which of course makes
    Any mother feel like a bit of a failure. If you had a good relationship so far it is difficult to understand why she does it unless it is a reaction towards you because you do not like her husband.
    Our son in law is not our cup of tea and never will be but I have come to the conclusion that we do not have to like him and we cannot expect him to like us just because he is married to our daughter. That seems to make things easier. We once had a dream that our son in law would be like a son to us but dreams do not always come true and we have to take things as they are. I try to see his good qualities which of course he also has. We see them once a month and that is enough for us. Of course I would like to see our daughter and grandson more often.
    Do not give up hope that things could turn around and instead of blaming them try to stay positive even though there is a lot of hurt. If praying means anything to you, it gives a lot of consolation in a hopeless situation.
    All the best
    madhatter22's Avatar
    madhatter22 Posts: 9, Reputation: 3
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    #18

    Dec 9, 2009, 10:39 AM

    For some reason today, I read your response again about "son in law." I agree with you that I had a dream that I could be close to my daughter and her husband, but it also didn't work out the way I had hoped. It is very sad that she has to be in the middle of things. Makes it very difficult for her and myself. I have taken the path to only contact her once a week when it is time to see the kids. So far we have been lucky and get to see the kids one night a week. The granddaughter loves us very much and we get the opportunity to have her stay overnight once in awhile. So I am grateful for that. It could be worse because he could say that we won't be able to see them at all, but at least my daughter stands up and makes that work for us. So, I cherish those times and it makes me sad how things are, and wish they could be better. But I too have learned to just take things as they are. It still hurts a lot that I have to be like an aqaintance to my daughter, but it works better not to ask any questions and just stay out of her life. I never thought it would be this way, but we were never all that close. I'm sure she thinks I was a bad mother because she compares me with her "perfect" mother in law that thinks of all things possible to do to make her happy. She doesn't work anymore, so her whole life is dedicated to taking care of the kids and her, even though she is a stay at home mom. I haven't given up yet, but some days it does seem like it would be much easier, but then again nothing worthwhile in life comes easy. I do pray everyday that things could or will turn around somehow. It does give me some consolation. I only wish they would have God in their lives. My feeling is that people that do, have a conscience and know that hurting people is not one of the requirements for a christian. But, I can only pray for them that some day they will know that and things will be better down the road. Thanks for your words of wisdom. They have helped me today.
    OwnBestFriend's Avatar
    OwnBestFriend Posts: 11, Reputation: 2
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    #19

    Feb 20, 2010, 11:01 PM
    Hi Berna 555 and Madhatter22,

    I've suffered the same "outsider" treatment, since just after our daughter met her partner and his family (7 years ago) and like you, I've often wondered where I went wrong. However, discussions with friends and a counsellor helped me to understand and accept that I can only be held responsible for my part in any relationship and that my relationship with my daughter will not improve until she grows up enough to accept responsibility for her own actions. She has just cut contact with us, for the third time now, simply because she can't handle being challenged about allowing her partner to manipulate her into doing things that scream contempt for us or insensivity for our feelings. Challenging her partner had exactly the same effect because keeping us on "the outer" is the only way in which he and his mother can maintain their own supremacy.

    Sadly, being shut out of our daughter's life means that we've also been shut out of our grandchildren's lives (giving the partner and his mother more control) but, we've decided to respond to that by being kind to ourselves, instead of beating ourselves up about it. After all, it is not our fault if our daughter doesn't value the contribution that we've made to her life, her husband's life and her children's lives. So, until she learns to do that, and accept responsibility for her own blindly selfish and insensitive behavior, we're going to concentrate more on ourselves and our other daughter, who does value us and our efforts to be there for her and her sister.

    We're planning holidays and other fun things with our friends (who've been very supportive of us), instead of worrying about being there for our foolish daughter and her controlling partner. We'll continue to send our daughter and grandchildren birthday cards, to ensure that they know that we haven't forgotten them but, until our daughter wakes-up to herself and the situation that she's put herself in, there's nothing more that we can do. For years, I put-up with being treated as "an outsider" by some of the members of my foster family, before finding my voice. So I will not accept being treated as "an outsider" by my own flesh and blood, and neither should you. Life is too short to waste on selfish users when there so many others who would genuinely appreciate a helping hand from caring people like us (e.g. children's charities or child sponsorship).

    Sometimes we have to be prepared to let go of people who we love until they learn to treat us in the same was as they'd like to be treated themselves.
    pepperhill's Avatar
    pepperhill Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
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    #20

    Mar 26, 2010, 05:45 PM
    I am in the exact situation. I was close to my daughter until this jerk came along. He wisked her away to live in another town 14 hours away. That was good and I thought maybe the ILs would stop telling her how to decorate her house, what to wear, paint for her, buy her clothes, go on holidays with them. My daughter has also started to lie just like her husband and ILs. I don't have anything to do with her ILs except be courteous and it has been working out extremely well. Many times when we visit my SIL wants us to leave as told by my daughter, so we do. Now a baby is expected in July and we were told we have to stay in a hotel and not to come to visit until they tell us. They want to be alone. I'm sure the ILs will be right in their face. Unfortunately, my daughter has a very low self-esteem because her husband consistently criticizes her. She constantly tells me how happy she is - Good. But, I think she leans on MIL to pick her up. Of course, she doesn't want me to know how critical he is. I believe she is being brainwashed by her ILs as well. I work and so it helps keep my mind away from all this. Also, I have taken what I call a "leave of absence" from my daughter for a couple of weeks. - no phone calls, no e-mails, not contact. Hopefully, that might make them realize that there are another set of parents in existence!!

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