Ask Experts Questions for FREE Help !
Ask
    iggengstrom's Avatar
    iggengstrom Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #1

    May 1, 2009, 01:04 PM
    Basement window installation
    I have three basement windows that are 18"x30" wooden framed bottom hinged with
    A top latching device. The windows are placed toward the inside of the concrete
    Walls. I am going to replace them with vinyl double pained ones. I have three questions
    That are of concern since I have not removed any of the trim to see how they are secured.
    1 If I have to replace the casement what is the best material for this that requires
    No painting.
    2 When reinstalling the windows what amount of spacing should I figure for seasonal
    Expansion and contraction
    Which style is best for windows that have a window well and are about half below
    The grade of the yard.

    Thanks Igg
    21boat's Avatar
    21boat Posts: 2,441, Reputation: 212
    Ultra Member
     
    #2

    May 1, 2009, 02:36 PM

    The expansion for a window is already built in for the window itself. The old basement windows were the metal one that set in a grove in the block jambs. The blocks were called sash block. The 18" was for the mortar wash. Blocks are 16" long and 8" high. The sash windows are 32 w by 16" high which allows the bottom to be wedged up for a mortar wash/sill. Other applications a wood sill was used in place of mortar.

    This video should help you
    How to Replace a Basement Window | Video | Windows | This Old House

    There is many styles of windows for that. One with a vinyl clad are the best for that.
    Here is the usual styles. You mentioned 30" wide that's a bit odd for block layout. You van order basically any sizes

    http://hardware.hardwarestore.com/27...ign=googlebase
    logan176's Avatar
    logan176 Posts: 341, Reputation: 6
    Full Member
     
    #3

    Jun 16, 2009, 06:18 PM
    Okay, I'm going to piggyback off this question. Here's a pic of one of my old metal framed basement windows. The frame is embedded in the mortar. I assume that the window went in first and then the mortar was added so the water drains away from the window. The metal frames are 50 years old and badly rusted, so I want to remove all parts of the current window during the replacement. I'm trying to make this look as neat and professional as I can. With that said, here are my questions...

    1. Should I remove all the mortar, down to the cinderblock foundation, when taking out the old windows? Oh yeah, the outside of my foundation has a crappy stucco-ish covering that goes all the way up to the outside of the frame (second pic). I would probably have to chip that out too.

    2. When I put my vinyl windows in, should I build a wooden frame or should I size the window to the cinderblock opening? I currently have no wooden frame.

    3. The opening is approximately 30x14. Which window style will give me the best ventilation? A hopper or one that slides to the side?
    Attached Images
      
    jon123's Avatar
    jon123 Posts: 240, Reputation: 3
    Full Member
     
    #4

    Jun 17, 2009, 04:57 PM

    you may need I metal blade in a reciprocator saw to cut out that iron window frame.. otherwise you risk cracking block by chiseling hard mortar on the block.. hopefully it is loose mortar.. you will likely need a wonder bar or pry bar in anycase.. you should try and get a stock hopper awning or glider window.. if you want a good frame with minimum work you can use treated 1x4 framing.. glue/silicone/expansion foam if needed.. be sure it is square to the block top and bottom with a few mason tapcons.. set your unit in shim and screw.. and fill remaining perimeter spaces with low expansion window foam.. you can wrap the outside with aluminum trim or paint it, same for inside.
    logan176's Avatar
    logan176 Posts: 341, Reputation: 6
    Full Member
     
    #5

    Jun 17, 2009, 05:19 PM
    Jon123,

    I appreciate the reply, but I'm having a hard time following your post. It seems like you think I should use a reciprocating saw with a metal blade to cut out the current window frame. Then build a wooden frame using pressure treated 1x4s. Buy a stock hopper or sliding window, install by screwing into the new wood frame, and fill the gaps with foam.

    One thing is throwing me off... it sounds like you want me to build the wooden frame on top of the mortar that slopes away from the window frame. Can you explain this a little better? I'm not sure if I should be digging out the old, sloped mortar or not.

    Thanks
    jon123's Avatar
    jon123 Posts: 240, Reputation: 3
    Full Member
     
    #6

    Jun 18, 2009, 07:36 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by logan176 View Post
    Jon123,

    I appreciate the reply, but I'm having a hard time following your post. It seems like you think I should use a reciprocating saw with a metal blade to cut out the current window frame. Then build a wooden frame using pressure treated 1x4s. Buy a stock hopper or sliding window, install by screwing into the new wood frame, and fill the gaps with foam.

    One thing is throwing me off... it sounds like you want me to build the wooden frame on top of the mortar that slopes away from the window frame. Can you explain this a little better? I'm not sure if I should be digging out the old, sloped mortar or not.

    Thanks
    you are going to remove the slope mortar as much as you can using a mason chisel (3 to 4 inch mason chisel should work.. if after you complete that phase, you can screw together the dimensions for the jam to accommodate your window of choice.. the (hopper is preferred if no overhang for rain ) after secured 1x4.. you can fill or fix any cracks holes in the block with mortar but use either fiberglass insulation or foam for the space between you custom jam and window.. try framing 1/4 larger for space for window shim level /plum adjustments and the space also allows for good insulation job.
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
    Uber Member
     
    #7

    Jun 18, 2009, 12:57 PM

    I need to replace the same kind of wondow, but there is no frame. It's also part of a semi-finished basement.

    The windows and its frame lift out for cleaning, so I was planning to just to leave the metal frame in tact and attach the new window from the outside. A mix of a brick sill, cinderblock and stucco.

    I can see where the top plate is, so that would have to be cut with say an angle grinder and it looks as if the masonary sill would have to be chipped away as well if I wanted to remove it entirely. I don't really think I would gan too much by doing so. I wish I had a picture of a window like this like it would be before installa tion.

    Looks like 21 boat says the two blocks on the bottom and possibly the two at the top have a notch in them so that the window can be held in place. Like to see a picture of that block too.
    jon123's Avatar
    jon123 Posts: 240, Reputation: 3
    Full Member
     
    #8

    Jun 18, 2009, 01:42 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by KeepItSimpleStupid View Post
    I need to replace the same kind of wondow, but there is no frame. It's also part of a semi-finished basement.

    The windoes and its frame lift out for cleaning, so I was planning to just to leave the metal frame in tact and attach the new window from the outside. A mix of a brick sill, cinderblock and stucco.

    I can see where the top plate is, so that would have to be cut with say an angle grinder and it looks as if the masonary sill would have to be chipped away as well if I wanted to remove it entirely. I don't really think I would gan too much by doing so. I wish I had a picture of a window like this like it would be before installa tion.

    Looks like 21 boat says the two blocks on the bottom and possibly the two at the top have a notch in them so that the window can be held in place. Like to see a picture of that block too.
    you would be best to take off all the metal in most cases however, I would have to see a picture as to why you would leave the old frame for a replacement unit.. usually best to build a 1x4 treated frame using 1 1/2 screws 2 per corner should suffice. Than set and secure that in the opening so you can easily install your vnyle replacement.. it isn't rocket science here.
    logan176's Avatar
    logan176 Posts: 341, Reputation: 6
    Full Member
     
    #9

    Jun 18, 2009, 06:22 PM
    Okay, so I understand the tear out and removal of the old mortar part. Next... sizing. If I go with a stock 32x15 I'm not sure I'll have enough room for a 1x4 framing. So I might have to install the hopper with tapcons and then fill with caulk and mortar... or order a custom size. What do you think is better, using a wooden frame and having to order a smaller, custom window or not using a frame... kind of like the picture below?

    Either way I will need to add mortared slope to the outside of the window for runoff. How do I know how much of a slope is enough?
    Attached Images
     
    21boat's Avatar
    21boat Posts: 2,441, Reputation: 212
    Ultra Member
     
    #10

    Jun 19, 2009, 01:10 AM

    Hi Logan min slope in Crete porches etc is 1/4" per linear foot. However, more is always better when it comes to a basement window its usually much more. If you look at a new double hung window its not sloped steeply as the old mortared basement windows and is smoother for less water tension to occur in runoff as opposed to a rougher texture mortar.

    There seems to be different post here to answer. Put it this way. If the new standard window fits the opening in width and is a bit shy of the height this difference can be compensated for a higher mortared sill.

    Either way the window is screwed to a 1 by wood frame of the rough opening or tap coned directly into the block jambs after shimmed and caulked for finish on sides.

    If the old window is set in what we call in the trades "sash block" which is installed before the house top plate is in, then it is wise to cut out the metal as Jon suggested. Basic reason is it will be in the way and you don't want the new window on either side of rusting metal.
    logan176's Avatar
    logan176 Posts: 341, Reputation: 6
    Full Member
     
    #11

    Jun 19, 2009, 04:06 AM
    Hey 21boat,

    Yes, my setup has the old rusted metal frame embedded in the mortar. The frame meets cinderblock on three sides, the top of the window opening looks like a wooden 2x6. From what I've read elsewhere, if I do not frame out the rest of the window I should screw the new window frame into that top piece of wood, stabilize the rest of the window, and fill the sides and bottom with mortar. Does that seem right?




    P.S. Sorry if my previous posts have left out some info. I have experience with installing other windows, just not ones that are surrounded by cinderblocks.
    21boat's Avatar
    21boat Posts: 2,441, Reputation: 212
    Ultra Member
     
    #12

    Jun 19, 2009, 07:21 PM

    Hi Logan,
    I would bet the metal frame is embedded in the slotted block. Here's how we set theses windows in the 70s on new construction.

    We lay the block jambs with sash block that are slotted. We leave a course of block out under the window opening below the opening ans use a 4" solid block to set the window on after we slide it in. Then we set the concrete lintels over that. This allows the top slot for the window to slide up into and we wedge it up using block pieces " spaws" After that we parge the inside return corners along with the outside block walls them selves . The 4" solid block allows for the mortared sill not to fall into the block cores and allows the windows "wash" (mortared sill ) to be sloped. This gives the finish appearance that the window is just mortared in and hides the deep slotted part. Now some builders set them as you described.

    I should screw the new window frame into that top piece of wood, stabilize the rest of the window, and fill the sides and bottom with mortar. Does that seem right
    Your approach I feel is the best here and the easiest. After setting and shimming you can mortar it in to compensate for irregularities very easily and have a finished look. The new replacement windows come without a slot for obvious reasons ( slotted blocks) I replace them as you described and saves wood framing time and less up keep down the road. A new mortar wash is a given here. When you chilse out the old sill wash try to only chip out the inside sill and jambs. This way when you re parge ans new sill the new mortar will only show on the inside return jambs and the difference in mortar color will have a definite demarcation line and have a clean look.
    logan176's Avatar
    logan176 Posts: 341, Reputation: 6
    Full Member
     
    #13

    Jun 19, 2009, 08:16 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by 21boat View Post
    A new mortar wash is a given here. When you chilse out the old sill wash try to only chip out the inside sill and jambs. This way when you re parge ans new sill the new mortar will only show on the inside return jambs and the difference in mortar color will have a definite demarcation line and have a clean look.
    Okay, so you're saying to chisel carefully from the inside and try to leave the mortared slope on the outside of the window intact. Once the window is mounted, apply mortar and create the slope on the inside of the window. Yes?
    21boat's Avatar
    21boat Posts: 2,441, Reputation: 212
    Ultra Member
     
    #14

    Jun 20, 2009, 02:07 PM

    to chisel carefully from the inside and try to leave the mortared slope on the outside of the window intact. Once the window is mounted, apply mortar and create the slope on the inside of the window. Yes
    ?

    Not really. The onside slope is more a decorative thing especially since the outside sill was mortared and sloped so do the inside quick on the job site.

    I was suggesting to chisel out the outside sloped mortared sill and the inside jambs if applicable, But not the actual outside wall itself. Just the inside jamb areas. You could try to sneak in the window and use the old outside sloped wash, but that will need caulked to old mortared wash and window. 9 chance's out of 10 that doesn't work simply because on window differences. So a lot of this is based on replacement window size. Also the sill slopes outside and in needs to have some thickness there to hold properly.
    logan176's Avatar
    logan176 Posts: 341, Reputation: 6
    Full Member
     
    #15

    Jun 20, 2009, 06:11 PM
    Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the info. I feel confident that I can tackle the windows now. When it comes down to the windows, I think I'm going to use one of these:

    American Craftsman Windows, an Andersen Company 300 Hopper 32 In. x 15 In. White 7/8 In. LoE Glass with Screen - 300 at The Home Depot

    Or

    ThermaStar by Pella at Lowe's: 32" x 15" 10 Series Tempered Hopper Vinyl Basement Window

    I like the fact that the Anderson window has the LoE but I'm not a fan of the rounded corners. I like that the Pella window has the squared off corners, but the window doesn't have the LoE. Is the LoE going to make that much of a difference with a small basement window? Which window would you guys get?
    21boat's Avatar
    21boat Posts: 2,441, Reputation: 212
    Ultra Member
     
    #16

    Jun 20, 2009, 06:21 PM

    I would go for the Pella simply the cost diff and the square look . Low E in a basement is a Gimmick of that size. Most basement windows get very little direct light set in the block jambs 4" from the outside façade.
    iam5050's Avatar
    iam5050 Posts: 7, Reputation: 2
    New Member
     
    #17

    Jun 21, 2009, 02:23 AM

    21---I am in a similar situation ---- just want to make sure I understand you correctly... Please do not take my ignorance as an insult and consider its 5:30 am and I am still working on this project since about the same time yesterday.

    Purchase Cheap stock windows to fit your need. -

    use 1 x 4's as a framing around the windows to secure into hole. And move on...

    Confused about 1 part... What about the weather proofind?? 1 bys a re cheap lumber ---- no more sloapedmortar?
    logan176's Avatar
    logan176 Posts: 341, Reputation: 6
    Full Member
     
    #18

    Jun 21, 2009, 05:54 AM
    5050,

    From what people have told me, you should use pressure treated 1x4s. The 1x4 frame is only going to stick out as far as your window. So if your window is positioned in the center of the rough opening, the frame will stop at the center of the rough opening. You'll see the framing on the inside, but it will seem flush with the window from the outside. As far as the weatherproofing, you're going caulk everything... then reapply mortar to create a sloped sill on the outside.

    The picture below is of an egress window... but check out the bottom framing. It shows what I'm talking about.

    Since I have been learning a lot from this post, if I have made a mistake, I know someone will jump in.
    Attached Images
     
    jon123's Avatar
    jon123 Posts: 240, Reputation: 3
    Full Member
     
    #19

    Jun 25, 2009, 07:23 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by logan176 View Post
    Hey 21boat,

    Yes, my setup has the old rusted metal frame embedded in the mortar. The frame meets cinderblock on three sides, the top of the window opening looks like a wooden 2x6. From what I've read elsewhere, if I do not frame out the rest of the window I should screw the new window frame into that top piece of wood, stabilize the rest of the window, and fill the sides and bottom with mortar. Does that seem right?




    P.S. Sorry if my previous posts have left out some info. I have experience with installing other windows, just not ones that are surrounded by cinderblocks.
    I just finished one like that today, it took less than an hr.. I charged him 75 bucks cause he is a good customer who gave me a lot of work over the years. I cut out the old metal frame using a reciprocating saw with a metal cutting blade.. 1st use a flat bar at the bottom after prying it out of the grove between the cider block.. in the middle or if you choose corners/ you can bend out the frame.. I than screw the 1x4 or whatever dimensional treated wood is called for measure in the sill first than the two sides up to the wood of the house.. use a torpedo level to plum /level.. you can screw toe down into your wood or shoot finish nails to secure.. in this case, the manufacturer instructions for this hopper said to put in stops so I tacked the three stops bottom and two sides.. I caulked a bead of silicone along the inside of stop.. I put the new window in.. tacked another three stops on the inside.. I also caulked the three sides where my wood meets the block on the three sides.. the top gets filled with window expansion foam.. I go outside and fill the cracks/perimeter with expansion foam.. done deal no mortar.. waterproof/bug proof water air tight.

Not your question? Ask your question View similar questions

 

Question Tools Search this Question
Search this Question:

Advanced Search

Add your answer here.


Check out some similar questions!

Window installation [ 1 Answers ]

labour cost to cut out window opening in brick wall 3'x5' & install window

Installation of Bay Window [ 2 Answers ]

I'm interested in installing a Bay Window. The Bay Window would be wider than the existing vinyl window. The window is on the first floor of a one floor addition that is wood framed, flat tar-like roof with slight pitch, and vinyl siding. The window would be about 4-5 feet wide and 2 -3 feet...

How do I install Drivers If I never got Installation Window? [ 7 Answers ]

I asked this ? Yesterday I got one response which said I should go to HP.com and look for sub menu.. I didn't understand what he was telling me to look for there, he also stated I should call the 800# and ask them to send me the disk, Excuse my ignorance, but "What Disk? I or someone had already...

How Do I install If I never got an installation window? [ 1 Answers ]

I have an Officejet G85 printer-- I didn't realize that the drivers were already downloaded, however, I am stuck now because I am not familiar with how to go about getting to those drivers to install them. Please Advise, this sounds to be fairly simple.. and I hope it is, it's just not my area....

Window installation [ 9 Answers ]

See what you guys think. We bought windows from a company and paid lot of money. One of the things they raved about was the fact that if the hardware, seals, glass breaks they will replace it for free for the time we own the windows. I get the warranty card and that states labor costs on it. The...


View more questions Search