My seven year old, beautiful and wonderful daughter is so mean. I do not know why. She is not mean to me or her Daddy, but she is extremely manipulative towards her little sister and brother. She will con them out of all their toys, drink their juice and then lie about it, and do things like this all the time. She does not care when one of them gets hurt, and she loves to tease her brother. I am at a total loss. My son and baby girl are both so sweet and caring, yet my oldest does not show any real love or care for anything. I have tried everything short of counseling. When I tell her I think she should talk to the school counselor she cries and says no. I am worried. I do not see any "caring" emotions in her and I do not want to lose her as she gets older. She lies and manipulates all the time.

Children are often a product of their environment. Are there consequences for her actions when she behaves like this? Is it known to her that it is unacceptable? Also, what's her age? And the age difference between the children? Is she fighting for your attention? Often negative behavior is just for attention... even if it's negative attention. Maybe discussing your love for all the children, right and wrong behaviors, and some one on one time would benefit her. Also, consequences for her behaviors must be known by her and followed through all the time.
Sounds like she's young and the behavior can be changed. Time, love, patience, and consistency. Good luck! :)

Sorry to hear about your situation. I looked up personality disorders on wikipedia, and some of the symptoms you described match antisocial and narcissistic personality disorder. Check out wikipedia to read more about these disorders and treatment options. I hope things improve for you.

Forget the school counselor. As her mother you are her primary counselor. Before the other siblings arrived, she was the center of your attention. She remembers that time & wants it back.
There is resentment toward the new-comers & her actions are her way of coping with the situation. Teach a new way of coping. Motivate her toward being the experienced one to help the younger ones. When she does help instead of harm, praise her actions. When any of us are praised for a particular action, we will continue that behavior to get more praise. Rewarding good behavior gets better results than punishing bad behavior.
Treat all 3 kids equally (easier said than done) but devote some time to each child as just special time between you & child. Ask Daddy to handle the other two for one hour per week while you spend that hour with the chosen one.
You can schedule that hour weekly & tell the children so that they have something nice to expect. They will look forward to that time with their mother.

Yes. We have tried so many consequences. We have grounded her from certain things.we have talked with her and tried explaining to her that we love them all the same. She said she knows that but she said "i just get so mad when they do things i dont like. i want what i want and im not getting it." So I am guessing she is too spoiled. I just do not know. My hubby and I make sure we spend quality time with each child. She rathers sit in her room and watch TV than play games with us most the time. I am considering taking her to a doctor. She is 7, my son is 5 and the youngest is 2. She is so well behaved other than this. I just do not get it.

I work at the school and know the counselor very well. I talk to her every day and try and figure this out. But I have finally decided that I can not fix this. She does not lack for attention and actually rathers be alone a lot than smothered with affection. We make sure each child has quality time every week also. She is very well behaved and never gets into trouble or anything. I just see her going down a bad road. We need help, this is not a small problem that can be fixed easily.

Reading this makes me actually thing I may try this. I am considering this now. I think I will take her to a doctor. I hate to think of any kind of medication for her. She is so sweet and beautiful. I love her so so much and hate this whole thing. I feel like any punishment I do anymore is just hurting her more than helping her.

She is classically behaving well for those in authority and bullying those in her power. This is bullying behavior and you and her father must stop it before she gets older. She doesn't have a disease, just bad values. Where is she getting the idea that that's okay? I'm not blaming you, but I'm asking you to think about where she would be witnessing such values and incorporating them into her behavior. It is important that you SHOW her that she cannot ever get away with it.

As for her not wanting to spend time with you, I think that's surprising. You can't be offering quality time if it isn't something she wants to do. If she doesn't want to play games, figure out what she does want to do. Maybe she feels the need to be treated like more of a grown up than her younger siblings.

Finally, what does it mean to "ground" a 7 year old? I don't know what you mean.

Guess I will go against the wave again on children, I don't see where she sounds very different than any 7 year old who is the oldest

Fr. Chuck,
I agree that lots of oldest kids do this kind of thing and get away with it. But that does not make it okay.

Parents' job is civilize kids and I think peachiz is right to be concerned about her daughter. Her instincts are excellent. Also, this girls sounds extreme, both in her goodness around adults and badness with her younger siblings. This is a child who feels very entitled to take what she wants from those who are "beneath" her. If peachiz lets it go, this little girl will grow up to be someone who make her bosses very happy and her employees absolutely miserable.

It's important to crack down on her firmly, gently, and consistently. She should be taught to feel less entitled and become more integrated into the rest of the family.

Yes we do need to stop it. You are right, but how. Our family has very strong values. We treat her just like the other children and we love them equally. I may not know the perfect way to raise a child, but I know how not to. You can not love a child too much. We have grounded her "tv, games, internet usage, bringing in toys to class" Taking away earned priviliges... I am sure she sees bullying at school and elsewhere, but not in our home. Also, this is not just bullying. This is manipulating. There is a big difference. We can show her she can not get away with it, but there is only so much discipline you can give a child. I am thinking it is time to get professional help.
I offer my free time to my daughter, I ask her to go to a movie, to play agame, to four wheel, to do anything she wants. She wants to stay in her room- alone. I even tried to take her to get her nails done. She wants to be alone when she wants.

Yes, I wondered if this was normal behavior, but the point is that it is simply not acceptable. I do not want my children to grow up normal or the same as all the children around them, I expect great things. Being cruel to others is not one of them .Especially family.

Hi again... I was just reading about your "grounding" policy. Here's an idea for you to try... I use this often with "behavior children" or oppositional defiant kids, and with patience and consistency it works out in the long run. IN the beginning there might be tears and what not (if they do not get what they want) but you must be strong and stick to it. OK.. so to the plan. Sounds like when she misbehaves you take away the things she loves most. Narrow down around 2-3 of her MOST favorite things to do. Let her know these things for the time being, are no longer part of her normal routine... rather she will have to EARN one of them for the day (in evening). Visuals always help so take a piece of paper or a white board and draw two squares on it. Each time she breaks a rule (set ground rules with her prior all this) she gets an X in the box. For the few weeks (depending on how well she does with this), if she keeps at least one box blank she earns 30-45mins of her choice activity. If both boxes are X'ed... she doesn't earn it for the day. After she's had a few of weeks consistently of earning her activity of choice, move it down to only one box... at this point she must make it through the entire day without getting an X. Eventually all this fades out and the child behaves accordingly because it's more internalized and they see all the positive praise and rewards they get from doing the right thing. Most importantly, follow through with what you say... you can't break down because if tantrums or what now... because then she's learned a new behavior to get what she wants.
Good luck. Let me know if you try it and if it works out.

Peachiz1123,


I have a somewhat similar problem. My ex adopted 2 children (2 boys) after we split up. My son, who is 6, doesn't live with his brothers but sees them often. One of the brothers is extremely manipulative and seems to lack empathy. He is 7 years old.

The brother could be like this due to early trauma. He could be wired like that. He could grow out of it. I don't know, but I'm paying attention, just like you are.

I hope you can ignore the comments that blame you and your parenting. Anyone who from a big family knows that kids are born with certain tendences. I do not believe that the Ghandhis or Hitlers of this world are created by good or bad parenting.

I suspect your daughter is OK and within the realm of normal (but mean) sibling behavior.
If I were you, I probably would seek out counseling for my peace of mind.

Good Luck!

Lelt's get this straight right off the bat.

You are a GOOD mother, with a kid who is defying you, and doing the opposite to what you expect her to. She is making these choices, and she knows right from wrong.

She treats everyone else but her siblings, very well. She is polite, well raised, aware.

Please try the suggestions that Luv has suggested.

Your child is not abnormal, does not need a counsellor, therapist, or a diagnosis of having some sort of personality disorder, in my opinion. That's a bit much.

We are talking about learned behaviour. She does what she does because she gets what she wants.

She is smart enough to know that the younger ones are easy tagets for quick gains.

Consistent discipline, with age appropriate consequences, repeated as often as necessary until it sinks in that the behaviour in question either a) gets a result she doesn't want, and b) isn't worth the trouble anymore.

Stick to your guns, don't worry so much. Take charge, set up concrete goals and expectations and nip this in the bud. You can do it.

I agree with Jake she knows what she is doing and she knows she gets away with it.
She needs consequences.
You need to break her of this before it becomes some socio path type behavior or something.
I agree with Fr_Chuck that it is normal for kids to act this way, especially the oldest. BUT if it is to an extreme it may be beyond 'normal'

Original post is from February and OP has not been back.

(I think we all agree though.)

I have a daughter exactly like this. Here is what I suggest:

1) Don't blame yourself. Most parents are not realistic about their children's faults. To hear them talk, their children are near perfect. You see your daughter (good and bad) as she is. From there, it's just a matter of helping her become the kind of person she needs to be to be a healthy, happy, productive adult.

2) Manipulative children are smart children and also very creative. She needs to be both academically and artistically challenged. Start pushing her in both areas.

3) Get her physically active (extremely active). This did the trick with my daughter. I've got her in every sports program there is and it just burns all the meanness out of her. I think children like this have a lot of anger and frustration inside, and being active teaches them how to use that emotion as fuel. FABULOUS lesson for later.

4) No TV if that makes her act meaner. (It did with our daughter, big-time.)

5) Get her a pet. We got my daughter a three month old kitten from the Humane Society. I watched her like a hawk to make certain there was no meanness or cruelty displayed. Anything that looked suspicious we had a long talk and she suffered consequences. Within a few weeks, she was feeding, loving, taking care of, and playing with this cat non-stop. She loves it to death and they are inseparable.

6)Join a church. I'll take pot-shots for this one, no doubt. But we need help in teaching our children values, and nothing beats learning about God and (in my case, the life of Jesus Christ, which inspired me incredibly as a child.) I honestly don't think it has to be Christian to be beneficial, though and I'm not preaching. Just find a place where your daughter starts learning the concept of sin and forgiveness.

7) Talk to her about adults who are cruel. She needs to see that cruelty and meaness are life choices and lead to a certain kind of future.

God bless and believe she will turn into the most awesome, loving adult--because she will. Find yourself some good friends who don't brag about their kids, but who really care about them instead. If anyone you talk to about your child or children makes you feel put down, walk away and find some new confidants. Honest people admit that raising children is both horrifying AND terrifying at times. But it's also our most important job.
Aloha, Cheryl Swanson www.cherylswanson.net

As quoted by "bones252100 ". " There is resentment toward the new-comers & her actions are her way of coping with the situation. Teach a new way of coping"
I don't see that happening in her case because she got her first sibling when she was 2 years old and I don't think she would remember how she was the only child and treated with center of attention at that age. She might be sharing and caring for her first sibling from the age of 3.
It is for sure a behaviour change. I could say that so, because I have a 5 year old who is lying on the face and changing the facts very manipulatively so that she would always be on the correct side.
She beat her grandparent and by the time I came from office, she came running and said the grand parent screamed at her. I asked my child why did the grand parent scream at her? She said because "I beat him but later said sorry mommy" "I didn't even lie" "But he screamed at me alot" . The truth I learnt later was that the grandparent said to her softly " stop beating or do you want me to tell your mother". So she manipulated the truth and this is just one simple incident of the many such incidents. I am going through all that pain though she doesn't have any siblings yet.
Please provide me any tools or moral stories that might help in changing her behaviour.

So I also have a 7 year old. Son. Lots of the time he is a real sweetie with his younger siblings, but when he doesn't like what is going on he gets angry pretty fast. I think it has to do with our parenting. We're trying to get to the bottom of it by having morning meetings 6 days/week and family meetings once a week when my hubbie is home. I cut up apples and we find a special place to sit together and we discuss one thing about each of us that was really great from the day before. Anyone can offer the suggestion. Then I ask if anyone has anything in particular they'd like to talk about. If no one says anything I give options to try to get their interest, but often I just pick something. One day we discussed "how habits form and how to break them" another day we talked about how they feel when someone pushes them. I'm slowly getting my 7 year old and 2 three year olds to talk about their feelings.