Just a comment to add about suicide. I do believe that suicide is a sin. Throwing a gift back in Gods face. Life is how you make it. It is all in the out look of life. Do I know anything about suicide. I think there was two cousins by marriage. Step Grandmother and Uncle by marriage all committed suicide. The uncle was hardest because my Step dad is the one that found his body. At one time it was taught in the church that people who commit suicide go to hell, but there is a more liberal belief that people who have gone so far and committed such a desperate act has been forgiven because they are considered mentally ill. I for one do not know, It is Gods ultimate decision on what happens. Murder is murder and killing yourself is murder. I dreamed about my uncle many times and the whole family both sides were effected. There was lots of blame going around, but the blame that does go around is all scape goats. No one can blame anybody for a choice that one person made to end his/her life. That person that committed suicide is responsible for his/her choice period.

Joe

I think this is murder, however I think it is up to God to decide. He will take into consideration mind-set, etc. If someone is attacking me or my children, I could possibly murder them in self defense. I don't believe that God would really punish me for this. He will take all things into consideration.

Not to disagree or disrespect PUMPKIN. But look up the word Faith. I know there is a living God, of a living Universe. But Faith is Faith. Believing in something that can not be proved by a scientific explanation. Very few have come close by having a after death experience. But close is not there. And even their storys conflict. So as the good Christian you are to suggest that I only half believe in God is being JUDGEMENTAL. I think I saw something about that in the Bible. Have a great night. God Bless!! :)

That is the thing we never know. God is the ultimate Judge. It is not up to us, but I do believe that there are certain things that God consider sin. Throwing the gift of life back in Gods face because in my own personal heart that is what life is a gift. That we need to learn to do our best to love others. Love is the greatest experience to give and share with others.

GEZZZZZ!! I agree. But I have the feeling you do not suffer, or can wear the shoes of a seriously mentally ill person. I will just leave it at that.

I would like to also say that there are some who even argue the defination of hell and what it really means. In some versions of the bible hell is considered the grave. The grave is where the dead go. So is hell the grave? Or burning sulpher of continuous punishment? Although the core of the earth is pretty hot. What do you think. The only reason why I mention this is because hell has been brought up and many people look or feel differently about what hell is or where it could be, for example some hold the belief that this earth and all of us here is a form of hell. I do not believe that at all. It is all in the out look the person has in life that makes the difference.

Hell is one mans concept. The idea of a negative force, that goes against good came from a so called prophet, from a religion that came & died many centurys before Mosses. Concept, idea, thought, comes from living man. I believe idea, thought, is influenced by God. But it still comes from man.:)

MARK: 28-29 - (Jesus speaking)" I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemies against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."


And for those who believe in Purgatory. I believe the only way to "free" those loved ones is to seriously forgive them. :rolleyes:

Mark 28:29. Very cool reading. Still Sin & Hell can be argued till the end of time. Way back I think on page 2, I stated the only true UNFORGIVABLE SIN is rejecting God (Jesus Christ) if you know of him. The Bible says if you repent, accept Christ as you Lord & Savior & change your evil ways you will be forgiven. I know no human can truly undestand God's total unconditional love for all. And is not my place to judge. And I don't even try. For a person like Jeffery Dhamer to repent and be born again in prison. If in fact he did, he to will be forgiven and given eternal life in the kingdom of Heaven. Just a thought.

Yes, you are correct from what I know. Rejection of Jesus Christ would prevent someone from eternal life. However, it is not just for those who know Him. There are missionaries around the world who have and are bringing the promises of Jesus to many. Ultimately the world cannot say they didn't have the opportunity to receive Jesus. For the Bible says- You cannot get to the Father, except through the Son.

Also, denying the Holy Spirit would be the same as rejecting Jesus because even unbelievers have a spirit. That is either 1) self-spirit or 2) demon spirit. So by rejecting Jesus, a non-believer also rejects the Holy Spirit of the Living God.

So, do you see my logic?

Pumpkin yes the word has been spread for 2000 years. But that fact is, there ARE PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD who never heard of Jesus Christ. There ARE INDIGENT RELIGIONS were the men go into the water & dance. They believe that is how children are born. There are NO MISSIONARIES to go to the small villages in China & spread the good news of Christ. And other countries as well. I am not trying to argue this with you. It is a FACT. I do not believe God will condem or punish the good & decent people. Anymore then the American Indians who for centuries were not aware of Christ. Their Belief goes even before Christ came to this earth. I believe God just want's people who basically follow the Golden Rule. Love others as yourself. And put God, or whatever their concept of God is First above all.

I don't know RUBLUE. The Bible is more explicit on salvation and sin. I know that those who were before Christ (as seen in the old testament) will be judged based on their belief in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.( I didn't say that. I heard my Pastor say that.)

And there are missionaries in Chinese villages tooo. In fact, I heard something yesterday on the news related to that. I didn't pay close attention but it was regarding a disregarding for papal influence coming to the Chinese. Maybe I could find it in the archives and get back with you later. :)

Just a thought: Is it not possible that a soul can continue to learn after death? If you have missed God's message on earth, isn't it possible to have opportunity after death? I think it is, because as rublue says, not everyone will have the opportunity here on earth. Isn't that only fair from a just and fair God? Who says judgement happens immediately after death?

While I have heard that babies are justified just because of their innocence and to what age a child is deemed "saved" for the same reason is something I don't think anyone knows, and maybe that's up to God only.


While your thoughts are nice...


Now who are we to Question God?

Revelation 21: 1-8
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, " Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. HE will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said," Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
He said to me: " It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magical arts, the idolaters and all liars- their place will be in the in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."


So, by you saying Aqua@home that goodness be a requirement for heaven... I think that is going to be a matter of Faith.

Touché... 31pumpkin, I will have to get back to you on this one. Boy, this group really makes you think. LOL

I believe that committing Blasphemy. When doing this you are turning your back complete on God. Someone who loves God want turn their back on God even during hard times. Also, I believe that suicide is wrong. Someone who ends their own live is just wrong. If you truly love and live for God, you will know that God will fix what ever you are going threw in due time, and that you have a reason to live.

I believe that committing Blasphemy is an unforgiviable sin

It is all intresting conversation. But until we pass, no none will no for sure. Also intresting is what you said about people being judged by the Old Testament, living in that time. I know from the book of John. It is said to some effect, Jesus was by the side of God in the beginning of creation. So he was with God when Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob were doing their teachings. I just don't know!! The way I read & understand my bible, all God fearing Jew's will go to Hell. Not accepting Jesus Christ as their lord & savior. Not accepting Jesus, the only unforgivable sin. (?? ) The only way for eternal life. And you are right about missionaries teams in China. I will admit a lot of the information I share comes from different reliable sources, such as the History Channel. But I believe there are people who never have been exposed to the teachings of Christ. Therefore will not be condemned by God. All I can do, is the best I can do. Have strong faith, read my Bible, lot's of prayer, & TRY to be the best person I can be.

You are right, God doesn't eternally condemn people because they lack crucial knowledge necessary for salvation and have behaved wickedly due to making uninformed decisions.

Luke 23:34
Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.”...


These unjust ones will be given learning opportunities after death via the resurrection.

Acts 24:15
KJV: And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Conditions will be different then and all those who didn't get a fair chance will be provided with the essential knowledge for salvation.

Habakkuk 2:14
For the earth will be filled With the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, As the waters cover the sea.

Suppose the blasphemer is insane, or grew up in the belief that the God he is blaspheming isn't really God?