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lickwid · Apr 29, 2008, 08:23 PM

So let me try to tell you what is going on. A few days ago, everything is working normal with my toilet. When I go to flush it, it flushes fine, and the water fills up slowly, but not all the way. There is a sucking type noise as the water is only filled up partly and does not cover the entire whole on the bottom. It finally fills up about half full. I test it and flush the toilet, and it works fine, but again the water only fills up about halfway.

I proceed to try to manually push down on the "float cup" type ballcock so that the water fills up the toilet a little more. This is when all my problems start.

Now when I go to flush the toilet, it starts to flush and halfway through, instead of going down the drain, it continues to fill with water. At the same time, the toilet tank fills up until the ballcock hits it's level and automatically shuts off.

Not sure what is causing this overflow. Is the level of my ballcock set incorrectly? I've tried looking at troubleshooting guides online without any luck. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

superplumber · Apr 29, 2008, 11:08 PM

It could be that the main sewer line is beginning to back up, do you notice any girgling sounds in the tub or shower when you flush the toilet? If so have your sewer line snaked out.
If you have trees around your yard it could be that roots have growne around the closet flange and found their way into the bottom of your toilet causing some restrictions, if that's the case you need to pull up the toilet to check for roots. Or if you have children in the house it could be someone flushed a toy or something and its stuck in the trap of the toilet, if you dry up the water in the bowl and take a small mirror to look up the trap you might gat lucky and see the abstruction. I would take a look at the trap first. Don't forget to poure water back into the bowl afterward so you don't get sewer odors in your house. I hope this helps you solve the problem. Good luck

massplumber2008 · Apr 30, 2008, 03:28 AM

Hey Lickwid:

If you hold the toilet handle down will the toilet flush correctly..? If you reach inside toilet and hold the flapper up will toilet flush fine?? In other words, is toilet clogged or is toilet just not working properly?

The water level in the toilet bowl is more directly related to the REFILL TUBE in the toilet tank that goes from the fill valve to the overflow tube .

Check out this picture... if it is your fill valve and overflow setup, just confirm for us.

1st thing to check is that that refill tube is sending water into the OVERFLOW PIPE when toilet is refilling.
2nd thing to check is that that WATER LEVEL ADJUSTMENT CLIP did not get moved... here, squeeze clip together slightly and clip slides up/down the LINK of the ARM on fill valve... want to set this clip so water stops filling tank at about 1/2" - 1" below the OVERFLOW PIPE.

Check out these adjustments... then get back to us with answers to my questions... I just don't see how toilet that flushed fine no longer flushes fine after simply sticking your hand inside the tank... know what I mean... ;)

Let us know... Mark

.

speedball1 · Apr 30, 2008, 05:03 AM

Follow Marks advice and then look down at the bottom of the bowl. If there is a small hole, then that is a jet that starts the syphon action. If it's clogged the water will just swirl around and slowly go down leaving solids behind. Take your finger,(UGH! ) and run it around the inside of the opening. Over the years minerals build up and cut down on the syphon (flush) action. If it is rough or you feel build up, take a table knife and put a bend in it to get around the curve in the bowl and chip and scrap it clear. Next take a coathanger and clear out the holes around the rim. They start the swirling action. And last, check the water level in the tank. It should be 1/2" below the top of the over flow tube. And speaking of the overflow tube, Make sure the small 1/8" tube from the ballcock to the white overflow tube is connected so it discharges in it and that it's flowing when the ballcock fills. This is what raises the water level in the bowl. For a good solid flush they all have to work together. Hope this helps . Tom

lickwid · Apr 30, 2008, 08:08 AM

I am at work now, but will try to adjust the clip when I get home. I did not notice a clip at all, and was unsure how to adjust the floating cup ballcock.

As for the hole that starts the siphon, I've stuck my finger in both the large hole and the tiny hole, and there does not seem to be anything lodged in there. I will try to get a "snake" from a friend, but I do not believe there should is something lodged in there, because it was flushing fine before I manually pushed the "floating cup ballcock" down to release more water into the toilet bowl.

Also, this toilet is on the 2nd floor, so there should be NO tree roots building up under the toilet.

massplumber2008 · Apr 30, 2008, 11:02 AM

Lickwid:

We always assume so much here...

Your fill valve may not have the clip... may be on a screw type mechanism. Compare your fill valve to the pic... any differences?

And I agree... doesn't sound clogged to me either... but something going on for sure.. ;)

Try what you can... check that refill tube and all details mentioned.. let us know what happens.

Thanks... Mark

lickwid · Apr 30, 2008, 06:39 PM

1. If you hold the toilet handle down will the toilet flush correctly..? If you reach inside toilet and hold the flapper up will toilet flush fine?? In other words, is toilet clogged or is toilet just not working properly?

If I hold down the toilet handle down, water continues to flow from the tank into the bowl, which then proceeds to overflow the bowl completely.

2. The water level in the toilet bowl is more directly related to the REFILL TUBE in the toilet tank that goes from the fill valve to the overflow tube .

Check out this picture... if it is your fill valve and overflow setup, just confirm for us.

My toilet is very similar to the one in the diagram attached above. If you notice, there is the main hole at the bottom of the bowl, as well as a smaller hole in front of it. Then on top around the bottom of the rim, there are a bunch of tiny holes. Here are some photos, LINK

3. 1st thing to check is that that refill tube is sending water into the OVERFLOW PIPE when toilet is refilling.

After flushing, the refill tube is filling water into the overflow pipe until it gets to about 1/2" or so below the top of the overflow pipe. I believe this is adjustable by using the water level adjustment clip.

4. 2nd thing to check is that that WATER LEVEL ADJUSTMENT CLIP did not get moved... here, squeeze clip together slightly and clip slides up/down the LINK of the ARM on fill valve... want to set this clip so water stops filling tank at about 1/2" - 1" below the OVERFLOW PIPE.

Doesn't look like this was ever moved, as the water level in the tank is still about 1/2" - 3/4" of an inch below the top of the overflow pipe.

Also, when I try flushing and waiting until it basically overflows the bowl, the flapper opens up and takes about 10 seconds before it closes. Not sure if that is normal or not either. But once it closes, the water from the refill tube starts filling up the overflow pipe, which brings some more water into the bowl itself.

massplumber2008 · May 1, 2008, 03:47 AM

Certainly looks like the toilet is clogged there lickwid!

Try plunging.. see if that clears it. If not, may need to purchase a closet auger (see pic.)

It must have been clogged before you touched the tank..?

Anyway, try the things I mentioned... let us know what happens. Worst case, may need to lift toilet and see what is clogging it up.

Mark

speedball1 · May 1, 2008, 06:13 AM

If I hold down the toilet handle down, water continues to flow from the tank into the bowl, which then proceeds to overflow the bowl completely.

There's no doubt that you have a blockage. The only question's where. First I would take Marks advice and purchase a closet auger and auger the toilet bowl.(see image). If the bowl's clear then the blockage's farther on down the line. This will take a sewer snak,(see image) to do the job. You may snake from three positions. 1) the lavatoty roof vent, 2) remove the trip lever plate assembly from the tub and snake from the tub waste,(Note: use a smaller 3/8ths. Inch snake for this.) Or 3) you could pull the toilet and snake from the open closet bend. Good luck, Tom

lickwid · May 1, 2008, 07:12 AM

Ok, I've tried plunging the toilet to no end, with absolutely no luck. I am going to borrow a closet auger and/or a sewer snake this weekend to try to unclog whatever may be clogged down there. I have no children in the household, so I'm pretty confident that there isn't anything major that can be clogging.

Could the partial blockage been causing the tank to only fill back halfway to where it was normally? Or was this something else completely?

speedball1 · May 1, 2008, 07:21 AM

Could the partial blockage been causing the tank to only fill back halfway to where it was normally? Or was this something else completely?

No! Follow Marks instructions on how to bring the water level in the tank up to 1/2" under the top of the white overflow tube. Make very sure that the small refill tube from the ballcock to the white overflow tube's in place. This fills the bowl as the tank's filling. Good luck and let us know how you make out. Tom

lickwid · May 1, 2008, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by speedball1

No! Follow Marks instructions on how to bring the water level in the tank up to 1/2" under the top of the white overflow tube. Make very sure that the small refill tube from the ballcock to the white overflow tube's in place. This fills the bowl as the tank's filling. Good luck and let us know how you make out. Tom

The water level is already about 3/4" or so from the top of the overflow tube. I will borrow a toilet auger tomorrow and give that a try, to double check there is no blockage. That is my next step.

lickwid · May 2, 2008, 11:59 AM

I got a toilet auger and inserted it all the way in with zero luck. The toilet is still overflowing as usual. Not sure what else I can do but call a professional plumber. Any other advice?

Thanks for all the help so far.

lickwid · May 2, 2008, 12:57 PM

We can close this thread now. I just gave up and called a professional plumber. They put in Rescue Rooter DrainRight Maintenance Solution to break up whatever was supposedly stuck in there. Then used their Toilet Auger several times before they were able to dislodge whatever was causing the backup.

Thanks everyone for trying to help. I can flush in peace now.

massplumber2008 · May 2, 2008, 05:56 PM

Hey Lickwid:

I don't know what that rescue rooter solution has to do with anything... maybe it helped..?

I know I have never used any solutions to clear a blockage in a toilet in my life... ;) Sounds like something was in there... hoping it does not return as issue again!

Anyway... glad you are up and running. Drop back anytime if you think we can help... Mark

.

lickwid · May 4, 2008, 05:41 PM

So after the plumber left, the water is running. After a flush, it varies, but sometimes the water from the refill tube runs into the Overflow pipe, but it doesn't fill up the Tank. The water in the toilet itself has waves like water is entering it, but it does not increase in level. What may be causing this?

I've playing with the flapper and the cap/arm and eventually it'll fill up the Tank and stop the water running.

Let me know if I need to create a new thread for this problem.

massplumber2008 · May 4, 2008, 05:50 PM

Hey lickwid..

You said, "After a flush, it varies, but sometimes the water from the refill tube runs into the Overflow pipe, but it doesn't fill up the Tank"... Or it doesn't fill up the BOWL..?

So the tank is not filling properly? That suggests that it is time to replace the fill valve. Actually a very easy job!

Let me know... Mark