[dcasa]

Yes, I know, I'm an idiot, but I am looking for redemption in fixing the car myself.
The first thing I noticed was a blown 80A fuse, all others OK. Changed that and the starter turns the engine and makes this horrible whirring noise.
- Took out the starter, check it OK. Then put it back and noticed that it fact belts move when cranking, so this is not the problem. Flywheel gear teeth look OK too.
- checked for 5V on the + cable to the MAP, it's OK
- Check engine light comes on and goes away after 2 sec. If I jump the service connector I get a solid CEL, no codes and a blinking SRS light.
Tried resetting the ECU a few times, no difference.

What does usually fry when you cross the jumper cables?
I'm thinking the ECU, but can't tell that it is dead for sure. I don't have a 'test harness' but was thinking of checking voltages from the back of the connectors.
I was thinking of checking the fuel pump, the main relay, and ignition, in that order.
Also, I want to make sure that the timing belt is OK. I know that exposing the distributor rotor will tell, but is there an easier way? There is a belt cover (the top) that seems it will come off
Without much trouble.
Thanks!! Great site by the way.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

. When you turn the ignition switch to ON, do you hear the fuel pump run?
. Did you check all under-dash and under-hood fuses with a test light or multimeter? Pay particular attention to the ACG (ALT) (S) fuse, in the under-dash fuse box.
. Did you check for spark?

Read sections A and B below:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...das-46563.html

[dcasa]

. When you turn the ignition switch to ON, do you hear the fuel pump run?
. Did you check all under-dash and under-hood fuses with a test light or multimeter? Pay particular attention to the ACG (ALT) (S) fuse, in the under-dash fuse box.
. Did you check for spark?

Read sections A and B below:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...das-46563.html

-Will try the fuel pump tonight (I'm at work)
-all fuses OK. Is there a chance that a cable itself may have blown?
-No check for spark yet, will do tonight

I was looking at the wiring diagram and try to figure out what may have been fried, judging from what is hooked up to the 80A fuse, but basically *everything* is!

Have read A&B. They are easy to read and understand! Thanks a lot! You have done a great job.

[dcasa]

>When you turn the ignition switch to ON, do you hear the fuel pump run?
Yes. It buzzes for about two seconds. Also heard the main relay click after 2 sec

>Did you check for spark?
Yes. I used a screwdriver on the plug cable, held it about 2mm off the block and saw sparks. The color was not blue, rather white or yellow. Maybe I should get a spark tester?

Also I smelled the tailpipe after cranking and could not tell if there was fuel in there.

So I'm guessing
1- have to make sure fuel is coming out the injectors
2- likely is that the ignition is faulty

[dcasa]

Latest:

-Checked main relay and harness per G.M.'s instructions, all OK.
-made pump run by shorting terminal, seems to run fine.
-changed fuel filter. I can hear fuel flowing around when I switch the ignition to ON
Repeatedly.
-changed ignition cables, checked for spark on all plugs with a spark plug. Nice spark.

Still no start!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Preexisting conditions:
- CEL on, goes off after 2 sec. with jumped serv. Conn. No code indicated.
- 'K test' shows 5V at map ref.
- Starter motor turns, see alt belt turning and a horrible noise is heard

Help!! Any suggestions?? I'm out of ideas :confused:
Don't want to give in yet and have it towed to a mechanic.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

This is tough.. . I'm still processing.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Did you check all under-dash and under-hood fuses with a test light or multimeter, paying particular attention to the ACG (ALT) (S) fuse, in the under-dash fuse box? I don't mean to beat a "dead horse" but this is often the solution to many electrical problems. I've even had people remove fuses as a joke on someone and that makes diagnosing problems very difficult.

Tell me about the horrible noise.

Have you checked the ignition switch and harness?

If all of that checks out, my hypothesis is that one of the distributor sensors may be damaged (CKP, TDC, or CYP). If you could substitute a known-good distributor, that would be great. If you can't lay your hands on one, here's the justification for replacing it--the bearings in most Honda distributors fail before 100,000 miles and you are due for a new distributor anyhow. If you decide to replace it with a new one, my recommendation is to go with a Honda distributor housing and install the igniter and coil from your old unit. Better yet, install a new igniter because these are problematic components and get damaged by electron migration over time. In a nutshell, my hypothesis is that you have spark but the timing is not there.

[dcasa]

First, Thanks a *lot* for your attention!
Now, about the issue:
Yes, I forgot to mention, checked all fuses OK with a multimeter. Acg fuse was the first I checked per your instructions.
The noise sounds like that high pitch noise that slipping belts make, or metal rubbing metal. Not too bad but alarming, at least to me. Hard to say if its normal in my car because usu. If it starts you stop cranking and may not notice.
Checked main relay harness. How do I check the ignition switch? I mean, the fact that the starter, fuel pump and all that operate at the right times would mean that it works, right?
If any of those sensors were bad, wouldn't I get a code?
As you point out, my distributor in fact failed not long ago and was replaced. I could test it per your instructions, but I do get spark - maybe that's not enough of a test?

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Here's how to check the ignition switch--it's not hard to do:

http://techauto.bravehost.com/ecu.html

Admittedly, it's not a high probability test but I have seen it be the problem, on occasions. Since you haven't done this before, it's probably not worth the effort to check at this point.

Likewise, you would think that a bad distributor would show up with one or more codes being thrown. It just doesn't always happen. Sometimes, you need to force a code by cranking the starter motor for 20+ seconds. I hate to do that--it just goes against my principles. The basics are there for your car to start; i.e. you have spark, fuel, the CEL light comes on and goes off properly, the ECM appears healthy, etc. It appears to me that the timing is off, which is likely a function of the ECM not getting the proper inputs from the distributor's sensors. Use your common sense and see if this makes sense to you.

It's similar to an old Remington gear drive chain saw I was helping my father with yesterday. It had great spark but it would not start. It turned out the flywheel key had sheared off, which affected the timing. Made a replacement key and it fired right up.

Could the noise be from the timing belt? Since you likely have an interference engine, serious damage could result from slippage.

[dcasa]

Will check ig. Switch.

I tend to agree with you on over-cranking for 20+ sec, but at this point I'm willing to try.

Also I may go and buy a fuel pressure gauge, just to be sure.

I may go ant take apart the dist. per your instructions. Just one question, what is the sequence? I removed the cap, and the could not access the rotor retaining screw. Should I take it all out first?

>Could the noise be from the timing belt? Since you likely have an interference engine, >serious damage could result from slippage

I was afraid of that. Is there a way check for proper timing belt function that does not involve taking the engine out and/or apart? If the engine is damaged the it's bye-bye for the car. It's my second car, rarely used and only here because my wife likes to have it. Now, of course, she wants it gone and I want to fix it :D but a broken timing belt will be the sign for me to 'let go'.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

I wouldn't spend the money on a fuel pressure gauge. I think it's a timing issue--either the timing belt or the distributor. Only you can really judge that. Just remember that 90% of crank but won't start situations are electrical related, not fuel.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Here's how to tear into the distributor:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post265896

It answers the question you had about the rotor.

[accordman]

Have you checked the timing belt,if not then remove the oil cap this will help determine if the timing belt broke.have someone else crank the engine and you look in the oil fill hole and see if the valves or lifters move up and down if no movement is seen then the belt broke if there is movement then check the timing and make sure the #1 cylinder is top dead center.

[dcasa]

Txgm, I agree with you, it's got to be the timing - will take down the dist. per your instructions. What still nags me is that I can't find a way to establish if the ecu and the timing belt are OK. Will keep you posted, may take a while.
Thanks again for your attention and advice.

For accordman: if there is a spark and the dist turns, doesn't that mean that the timing belt rotates the camshaft? Will look in there anyway.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Since it passed the K-Test, that's a pretty good indication that the ECU is OK. The timing belt may be OK, but accordman is saying it may have slipped a cog and thrown the timing off. His suggestion that you remove the No. 1 spark plug, place a small rod in the spark plug hole, and rotate the crankshaft with a wrench, until you locate top dead center (TDC), is a good one. It will be easier if you remove all four plugs. This won't take much time and, hopefully, will provide peace of mind that you haven't done any damage. When you do this, remove the distributor cap and verify that the rotor is opposite the corresponding position for the No. 1 spark plug.

I don't think you should give up on fixing your Civic. These situations are always tremendous opportunities for personal growth. During your intensive focus you learn many things that you wouldn't otherwise. Plus, you get the opportunity to share your knowledge and help others later.

[dcasa]

Accordman: Sorry I misunderstood your tip. Will try per tgm clarifications this weekend.
Tgm: Thanks for your encouragement, I won't give up yet, and I am certainly learning a lot!

One more question - where should I place the wrench to rotate the crankshaft?

[TxGreaseMonkey]

You should see a 14 mm pulley bolt on the crankshaft pulley--rotate it counterclockwise.