Gift of Discernment? Seeing the future? Speaking in Tounges?

The power of God shows its self to various people in many ways. For myself some seem to almost worship the spirit to one extreme, and others do not admit or want to see its power to the other extreme.

Also merely living in sin does not mean you are not used by God, many of the great prophets from the old testements committed untold sins David for example had someone killed so he could have his wife. But yet he wrote some of the best parts of the Old Testement.

So you being a sinner is one issue, the gifts are another.

They are gifts from God, if they are used for good and if they do not go against the teachings of the bible.
But a force or presense may be not of God that is fighting the good.

Since you are an admitted homosexual and I believe what the bible says about that lifestyle, I would have serious reservations about telling you that it is God speaking to or through you. I would tend to believe that the other is trying to use you.

Have you really read the Bible? Have you researched how many times it has been altered? I worked in a Christian bookstore in 2005 and there were 80 different versions of the Bible not languages but in different verbiage. I researched did you know that King James changed a passage meaning adulterous to homosexual? I am not here to argue though. Because I am a gay I do not think God hates me or won't still use me as the for mentioned by Fr_Chuck I am just confused as what I am supposed to do with this gift?

As far as being gay goes I have gone to therapists and Pastors to become un-gay until one day I realized I can't and God made me the way he made me, and he loves me. But I won't just let my word alone stand for it. read the last portion and see what you think. Please comment I would like to know.

- Toaot -

N our Judeo-Christian society, the documents collectively known as the Bible serve as the primary guide on most issues. It is interesting that many Christians take literally the references to homosexual acts, while interpreting other text with great flexibility. One person reported listening to a nationally-known woman speak in her campaign against homosexuality. She spent quite a bit of time quoting impressively from Leviticus. The listener accepted much of what the speaker said until he realized that, by Levitical standards, the crusader herself had broken many biblical laws she spoke in church (1 Corinthians 14:34), she taught men (1 Timothy 2:12), she was wearing a dress made of cotton and polyester (Deuteronomy 22:11), and others of which he was probably unaware.

What does the Bible really say about homosexuality? Actually, very little. Most significantly, Jesus said nothing at all. Considering the relatively small amount of attention the Bible pays to the subject, we must ask ourselves why this is such a volatile issue. Other subjects about which the scriptures say a great deal (e.g. Judgment, pride, hypocrisy) receive much less passionate attention. Before looking at specific passages, it is important to note that everyone understands the scriptures based on, and through, the light of what they have been taught. The Bible was not written in a cultural void, and many of its instructions and laws are simply classified as less relevant today (e.g. Prohibition against eating pork).

Nowhere does the Bible actually address the idea of persons being lesbian or gay. The statements are, without exception, directed to certain homosexual acts. Early writers had no understanding of homosexuality as a psychosexual orientation. That truth is a relatively recent discovery. The biblical authors were referring to homosexual acts performed by persons they assumed were heterosexuals.

The Sodom Story

A chief text used to condemn homosexuality is the Sodom story (Genesis 19:1-29), often interpreted as showing God's abhorrence of homosexuality. In the story, two angels, in the form of men, are sent to the home of Lot in Sodom. While they are there, the men of the city both young and old, surrounded the house - everyone without exception and demanded that the visitors be brought out so that we might know them. (Genesis 19: 4-5) Lot begged the men to leave his guests alone and take his daughters instead. The men of the city became angry and stormed the door. As a result, they were all struck blind by the angels.

There are several problems with the traditional interpretation of this passage. Whether or not the intent of the men of Sodom was sexual, the inhospitality and injustice coming from the mob, and that generally characterized the community, were the sin of Sodom. (Ezekial 16:49-50, Isaiah 13:19, Jeremiah 49:18; 50:40) Jesus himself refers to the inhospitality of Sodom. (Luke 10:10-13) If the men were indeed homosexuals, then why would Lot offer them his daughters? What is threatened here is rape. The significant point, then, is that all rape is considered horrible by God. The story deserves another reading.

It should be noted that not all of the men of Sodom could have been homosexual or there would have been no need to destroy them. If they had all been homosexuals, they would have all died off leaving no heirs. Quite likely, they were a mixed group of evil men attempting to be abusive to people who were different. Ironically, lesbian and gay people are often the victim of that same sin.


Although the traditional interpretation of the Sodom story fails as an argument against homosexuality, there are several other Old Testament passages that do condemn homosexual acts. Again, it should be noted that these passages do not deal with same-sex orientation nor is there any reference to genital love between lesbian or gay persons.

Homosexual Acts

Of thousands of Old Testament passages, only two make explicit reference to homosexual acts: Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13. Both of these passages are a part of the Levitical holiness code, which is not kept by any Christian group. If it was enforced, almost every Christian would be excommunicated or executed. It has been logically argued that science and progress have made many of the Levitical laws irrelevant. For example, fundamentalist author Tim LaHaye states that, although Levitical laws prohibit intercourse during menstruation, medical authorities do not view it as harmful, and, therefore, it should not be viewed as sinful. He further explains, Those laws were given 3,500 years ago before showers and baths were convenient, before tampons, disinfectants and other improved means of sanitation had been invented. (The Act of Marriage, p.275) With that, LaHaye makes this law irrelevant and rightly so. Ironically, though, in his book, The Unhappy Gay, the Levitical laws are one of the chief cornerstones of his arguments. Much of the holiness code is now irrelevant for us as moral law. Thus, having children, which was of exceptional importance to the early Hebrews, is now made less relevant by overpopulation, just as the prohibition against eating pork and shellfish has been made irrelevant by refrigeration.

The Bible never addresses the issue of homosexual love, yet it does have several beautiful examples of same-sex love. David's love for Jonathan was said to exceed his love for women. (2 Samuel 1:26) Ruth's relationship with Naomi is an example of a deep, bonding love, and Ruths words of covenant to Naomi are often used in heterosexual wedding ceremonies. (Ruth 1:16-17) The Bible clearly values love between persons of the same sex.

Jesus' Attitude

In the New Testament there is no record of Jesus saying anything about homosexuality. This ought to strike us as very odd in light of the great threat to Christianity, family life and the American way that some would have us believe homosexuality is. Jesus saw injustice and religious hypocrisy as a far greater threat to the Realm of God.

Episcopal priest Dr. Tom Horner has written that the Gospels imply in two places that Jesus' attitude toward lesbians and gays would not have been hostile. (Jonathan Loved David, p. 122) The first is found in the story of Jesus healing the Centurion's servant. (Matthew 8:5-13) The word used for the servant is pais, which in the Greek culture referred to a younger lover of an older, more powerful or educated man. Clearly, the story demonstrates an unusually intense love, and Jesus' response was wholly positive.

The other hint of Jesus' attitude is seen in his comments about eunuchs. (Matthew 19:10-12) Jesus opposed divorce in opposition to the abuses experienced by women. It is in the context of marriage that Jesus said some eunuchs were born so; others had been made eunuchs and still others choose to be eunuchs for the Kingdom's sake. Jesus' remarks about celibacy and castration are clear, but a male child being born without testicles is a rare birth defect. It is only in our day that the Kinsey Institute has demonstrated that sexual orientation is likely determined prior to birth. It could well be that those to whom Jesus refers as being born eunuchs are the people we call lesbian or gay.

Jesus' attitude toward eunuchs differed greatly from the fundamentalist Pharisees of his day. To them, eunuchs should have been excluded from the covenant and barred from worship and participating in the community of faith. Jesus' graceful approach to eunuchs is beautifully pictured in the promise of the prophecy of Isaiah, To the eunuchs...I will give them an everlasting name that will not be taken away. (56:4-8)

In Jesus' day there were three types of persons called eunuchs: celibates, those who were slaves and were castrated so that children would not be born to them, and those who were born eunuchs, or homosexuals. Royal and wealthy households used castrated slaves to work with and guard the concubines and female slaves. However, when assigning slaves to female members of the royal family, they would choose homosexual slaves. With female members, the concern was not just unwanted pregnancies but also rape.

It is against this background that we must read the story found in Acts 8:26-40. In this passage, the Holy Spirit sends Philip the Deacon to witness to and baptize an Ethiopian eunuch of Queen Candace of Ethiopia. One of the earliest converts to Christianity was a person excluded for sexual reasons from the Old Testament community.

Paul's References

Paul's statement in Romans 1:18-32 has been taken as the strongest New Testament rejection of homosexuality. He is concerned about the influence of the pagan culture on the Roman Christians. After giving a detailed description of a world that exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator, he continues, Therefore, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lusts for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty of their perversion.

A complete reading of these passages, in their original context, clearly shows that what Paul was actually referring to was homosexual temple prostitution, which was performed by various cults (though far more cults used heterosexual prostitution). Again, Paul is not referring to same-sex love, and he clearly has no concept of persons for whom this lifestyle is natural.

Paul's other reference to homosexual acts in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 is similar to 1 Timothy 1:8-11. These two passages contain lists of persons to be excluded from the Realm of God. The interpretation of these passages depends on two Greek words that have always presented a problem for translators. In the King James Version, they are translated effeminate and abusers of themselves with mankind. In the Revised Standard Version, they were combined and rendered as homosexuals, however, these are not the Greek words for homosexual, so these translations reflects the scholars' bias. The New International Version illustrates the difference in these two words by translating them male prostitute and homosexual offenders. The Jerusalem Bible uses the terms catamites and sodomites. Catamites were youth kept especially for sexual purpose, who were usually paid large sums of money. Neither passage refers to persons of same-sex orientation but to people who used their sexuality for personal gain.

The Love of Christ

Jesus did a great deal to change many social customs and ideas. He elevated the position of women, and, ultimately, they were his best and most faithful disciples. He did this by example and by commandments that were absolutely inclusive of the rights of all people. Yet, in the name of the Christ whose love encompassed all, the Church has been the most homophobic of all institutions. This should not be surprising when we realize that the Church is still the largest institution which is primarily racially segregated.

The final, and central, message of the New Testament is that ALL persons are loved by God so much that God's Son was sent as a means of redemption from a disease by which we are all afflicted. The cure for this disease cannot be found in any set of actions. Neither homosexuality nor heterosexuality is redemptive. God's love through Christ was given to all people.

Perhaps you should read through this thread over on the Christianity forum
http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christi...ue-298544.html
There was a really long discussion on this subject and Gods view on Homosexuality. Believe it, don't believe it, your choice. However there is no where in the bible where it states that God used a sinner for any of the gifts of the Holy Spirit you have described. So my only option left is exactly what I said.

I think the gift of discernment is the ability to spot BS, and I can tell you there is a bunch of it in this thread.

Since the only sinless person mentioned in the Bible is Jesus, I would have to disagree with 450donn: Anybody, other than Jesus, who received the gifts of the Holy Spirit was a sinner.

But on the flip side, the Pharasees called Jesus a sinner and said He could not get His power from God because He performed healings on the sabbath. Which just goes to show you should be careful whom you judge to be a "sinner."

Anyway, I agree with the African minister. It does sound as though you have a very powerful gift. The gift came from God. How else? The gift is a part of you, and God made you. When God made Michael Phelps, he gave him the gift of size 18 feet. Had Phelps never gotten in a swimming pool, he might have wondered why God made him so "deformed." God made you with a really huge spiritual sense. So how do you find your swimming pool? How do you find the perfect place for you to be, where your unusual ability will in fact be a gift, to serve you in your work in serving others, for the glory of God? Pray to Jesus to show you that path, and then be silent and listening in your prayer. You may also consider praying that Jesus send you a good teacher, be it a human teacher or some kind of angelic guide (at least one of each would be ideal), to train you in your gifts.

When you say "the other side" makes you uncomfortable, are you referring to what could loosely be called New Age spirituality? I didn't know we were a side. What is this, a football game? Anyway, some kinds of discipline, like meditation, don't belong to any "side." They are just exercises. People with all kinds of gifts from God, medical or musical or athletic or oratic, need to train their gifts if they are to use them to the full potential. These are talents, like in the parable of the talents. God wants us to put our gifts to use and do good in the world with them, not bury them in the ground. As long as you always frame the intention of your work as, "I am going to use my gift to do XYZ, as it be the will of God." Your gifts can bring people healing, guidance, and faith.

In our culture, it's not easy to grow up either gay or psychic (or "gifted" as you would language it). In both cases, you feel like you have to hide your true nature, your feelings, or be accused of being evil or crazy. That's not your problem, though. It's the culture's problem. And though lots of people are uncomfortable with such things, there are lots of other people who are not, who will be willing to accept you for being you.

Blessings.

From Toaot - I can't go to the church since I am gay , and the other side makes me feel uncomfortable. Anyone else feel like this or experience similar things?

I'm sorry your church is so backward and ill informed.
Live your life and be proud of your gifts and who you are.

What? Do they have a "no gays allowed" sign out by the church?
They only accept people they judge to be perfect?
This church is a disgrace.

You may have several spiritual gifts. If the gift of discernment of spirits is one of them, and you feel uneasy about a certain spiritual presence, it is because it is a demonic/fallen angel's presence. Christians, like all humanity, have sinned, and continue to sin. Christians, however, are saved by the grace of God, and are given faith in the blood of Jesus to pay for their sins. A major characteristic of a Christian is love for God, and love for others, including wanting the highest good for oneself. If we are born again by the indwelling Spirit of God, we should see Him working in our life to sanctify us. We don't make ourselves holy, Jesus works in us through the Holy Spirit, to bring us to the truth, and we get set free from sin, step by step, as we are made able to yield to Him. We can open ourselves up to the evil one through practicing sin, unforgiveness, rebellion or unrepentance, and also, Satan is a liar, and will sometimes attack when he has no right to. God showed me after many years that certain things I was doing were wrong, and I have repented. We should not leave a door open for the evil one to attack us. The gifts and calling are irrevocable, gifts are present in spite of sin, so don't think homosexuality is acceptable. Repent, agree with God, trust Him and be truly free.