Need help with commercial 20,000 sq ft office cleaning bid

Thanks again, Stringer. These are very good points. I don't even think the guy is an employee but an off-the-books cleaner which is what makes this business the hardest.

There is no way we would do it for $1000 per month. It would not be worth the drive there

The minimum that we are considering would be $1720 and we really would like something more like 2000.

We based that on 5-6 hours a night but since it could be even more than that, then I think we would have to go higher.

Thanks again for your help.

First what you need to do is to figure you loaded hourly rate which includes everything Sharon;

Actual wage, supplies, equipment, taxes and other admin costs, ...all your total costs then add profit. You have to get a handle on exactly what you need to cover and what you need to make.

Calculate your costs monthly, then break it down to weekly then daily then to the hour. Then you will know what you have to charge and that you will not make a mistake and loose money and faith in what you are doing.

Even if you loose a bid always go back and tell them that you are available should they need you. Then ask them since you want to improve please to tell you how much higher you were. This is how you learn to bid the next job. Ask whom you bid against and learn you competition, this you must do also, know you7r competition. Be friendly with them but be tight tongued.

The learning never stops if you want to be even more successful.

$1,720 / month is only $0.086 per sq ft. Volume dictates price. If I were bidding on a job say, 200,000 sq ft I might consider $0.08 to $0.09/sq ft that is $16,000.00 per month. But for an average or smaller job, well personally I would not bid below $0.14 to $0.16. The smaller the job say 20,000 sq ft the higher the price.

Another thing Sharon these types of bids where they apparently haven't used a professional company before usually turn into squeaking wheels and require a lot of attention even more than necessary sometimes because a standard isn't set as yet with them.

I hope that I have been helpful, ask away if you have more questions.

Good luck again,

Stringer

You have been very helpful, Stringer. This has been driving us crazy thinking about it and you have given us much food for thought and we really appreciate you taking the time to help us figure this out.

We definitely don't want to price it too low either on purpose or out of ignorance. We have never believed in low balling or trying to get a job at all costs since we know this is counterproductive for everyone. We've seen many businesses that have priced too low go out of business and we've vowed to not do that. We started our pricing right from the start at a rate that we planned to charge once we had employees rather than a lower rate because we were doing the cleaning.

I do have one more question, if you don't mind.

Could you tell me about how long it would take to clean a commercial bathroom with 2 stalls, one urinal and a double sink each day if it was cleaned 5x per week? We think we have a handle on how long most of the other tasks would take but since we clean mostly residential, it's hard to figure out how long it would take to do a commercial bathroom since residential bathrooms take much longer.

There is a system for commercial Sharon. It has to be quick, efficient and effective. For example count each fixture (toilet, sink, mirror, urinal, etc as a unit, each unit should take 1 1/2 minutes: six units X 1.5 = 9 minutes + 3 minutes for the floor in this size washroom; Quick and Efficient. Use disinfectant.

First clean the mirror (drips to the sink and counter), toilets with swab brush (drips to the floor), sink/s (drips to the floor) spot the walls and partitions. The floor has some water on it now mop with fresh disinfectant.

In and out in about 10 minutes Sharon. After you clean any room stand in the doorway one last time to insure that you did not miss anything.

Like I said ask away, I do not mind.

Stringer

I figured we were probably estimating too long of a time to clean the bathrooms but wasn't sure how long it should take. We estimated about 20 minutes but I figured that was probably too long. So knowing how long it should take really helps. I'm guessing it will take us longer at first but we'll get it. The top to bottom principle is the same in residential.

I'm going to print up your posts so I can reread them several times. There's so much good info here.

I do have another question. She didn't specify but I was thinking that we could dust the offices 1x per week. I wouldn't think they needed to be dusted daily. Is that about how often offices usually get dusted? I thought once per week and twice per week at the very most.

Thanks again, Stringer.

We classify building by Class; A, B or C Sharon.

Here is a copy of our evaluation of these buildings for quick reference: I put this together about six years ago, I use this with prospects to clarify the cleaning process. You may use this if you like.

Accurate method of evaluating a building using effective cleaning principles:

(Key points):

A. Define Your Building/s: A, B or C

1. “A” Buildings:

These are buildings where high intensity and concentration is given to the cleaning program. There are additional tasks performed and the frequencies of these tasks are amplified to achieve a level of greater service/cleanliness. These types of buildings are generally more prolific with items such as marble floors, expensive carpets, wall hangings, etc, and are generally Corporate, Division or Regional offices. But an “A” building can also be any building with great emphasis placed on its appearance.

2. “B” Buildings:

They are generally typical office buildings; with commercial carpeting, VCT flooring, and possibly some marble or other type of hard flooring, etc. These buildings require normal daily service and periodic cleaning of other areas. Usually occupied by tenants and managed by a management company or owner.

3. “C” Buildings:

“C” buildings are generally older buildings where expenditure is a factor. Service is commonly five/six days per week although the task and frequency schedules are less reoccurring, although greater attention is still paid to certain areas; restrooms, lunchrooms, entrances, etc. These buildings generally have fewer amenities.

Some buildings can fall somewhere between the above ratings to be a “B” plus or minus, a “C” plus or minus, etc. Adjustments can be made; however the basic descriptions should apply to most buildings.

B. Rate of Cleaning:

This can best be characterized by the square footage that can be cleaned by each person each hour. More square footage per hour denotes less detail, less square footage per hour equals more detailed cleaning.

Examples:

“A” buildings may be cleaned at a rate of approximately 2,000 to 2,500 sq ft
per hour
“B” buildings at approximately 2,500 to 3,000 sq ft per hour
“C” buildings at approximately 3,000 to 3,500/4,000 sq ft per hour

Another factor when considering the “Rate of Cleaning” is density. Density reflects on frequencies and refers to the number of regular staff and visitors in your building and this is equivalent to the number of desks, waste cans, personnel traffic, soap and paper usage in washrooms, etc. With this it is understood that pricing is driven by the number of tasks and their frequencies.

As a client you are better informed when you define the “Rate of Cleaning” for your building. This will allow you to determine the level of service you desire and a better understanding between yourself and your contracting service. The client and the service contractor should agree on the number of hours being used nightly to perform the service.

Other bidders should also understand this process and agree on the hours to ensure that you receive the standard of service you deserve. If the agreed upon hours are not in line then this should be addressed.

C. Specifications: (Written stipulations denoting tasks and exact frequencies of each task.)

Clear, written, agreed upon, specifications that detail the tasks and frequencies for your service that may also include special periodic duties to be performed. These specifications should relate to the agreed upon definition of the building; “A, B or C.”

It is important that the client understand and apply the above in their decision process, without this clarification of the exact responsibilities of the contractor the client cannot have a qualified guarantee of the services being performed.

I hope this helps some.

In most cases Class A & B buildings, dusting is daily. But not always, especially if you are in a pricing situation.

Dusting less than each day in my opinion should be twice per week. High dusting, above average eye level is once per month as are the window blinds.

I'm ready...fire away with any questions.

Stringer

Wow, that's very impressive. Thanks for allowing me to use it. I will save it in my files. I especially like the part about the production rates varying depending on whether it's an A, B, or C. I think ours falls between B and C.

I don't think I have any questions at the moment but if I think of any more, I'll let you know. I've been working up graphs with various prices and how much we would make depending on how many hours it would take.

Thanks again for all of your help. I typed up the proposal today and we just need to add the final price.

On average our NET profit is in the 15 - 20% range. The larger the job (say 50 - 75,000 or more sq ft) the less the percentage, possibly 10 - 13%. The smaller the percentage is then higher, even 30% +.

Remember that percentages mean little, the actual dollar amount matters but they are a quick barometer.

50% of $1.00 is only $0.50. 10% of of $10,000 is ....

I wish you good luck Sharon, it will be a leaning process either way.

Stringer

Thank you, Stringer. Would a 20,000 sq ft job be considered a smaller job or an average job? I would guess it would be smaller? Correct?

We crunched so many numbers and with some figured we came out making a higher percentage than others. In some scenarios we were making above 35% and with others we were making much less. It will all come down to how many hours it end up taking to clean it... If we get it. I made several graphs based on what wage we would pay and with different variations depending on how many hours it would take.

I'm going to call her tomorrow, make sure she got my email and ask when they will have a decision for us. Even if we don't get it, it was quite a learning experience. We have another bid in for a job cleaning a clubhouse and 4 model homes at a new condo community also. At least now I know enough to ask how much the other bids were if we don't end up getting it.

One thing that amazed me through all of this was how much less per hour you get for commercial than residential. It's just crazy how different it is.

Good luck with the bid Sharon, let me know.

Actually there is a good return on the sweat to reward in commercial. We do about $6m per year.

20,000 sq ft is on the smaller side that we bid. We don't bid anything smaller unless there are circumstances such as more locations to get in the future.

Our average in probably around 60 - 75,000.

Our largest under contract is approximately 275,0000. Total under contract is about 2.8m st ft.

And we don't use an hourly rate as the first method to figure a job (sq ft) and then we check it with hourly.