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loopydloop · May 29, 2007, 09:49 PM

Greetings. I recently bought a new ceiling fan and light kit to replace one that had been in my sun porch for over 20 years. A dual wall switch was always used to control the light and fan separately on the older fan. The fan speeds were controlled by pull chain. Before I took the old fan down, I noted that the light switch (bottom) on the dual switch appeared damaged. Switching it would no longer light the light but if you held the toggle switch in the middle, between on and off, it would light the light as long as you held it there. Once released the switch would move to either the on or off position but the light would always go off. I figured this was a problem with the mechanics of the bottom switch so I bought a new, identical dual switch and replace the old one at the wall duplicating wiring from old to new. Then, while I was at it, I replaced the fan, too. I got a nice Hampton Bay fan and light kit (no remote) and just figured I would wire it up the way the old one was wired and everything would be okee-dokee. Nope. The wiring is exactly as it was for over 20 years only now, when I switch the top switch on the dual switch, the light and fan come on together. The bottom switch, which used to run the light, does nothing. I looked at the wiring in the box at the fan. There's a black (hot) a white (neutral) a green (ground) and a red (hot). The fan has a black, a white, a blue and a green wire. I looked at what I had done and checked the connections. I had done the wiring exactly as it was on the previous fan. I had grounded the green, hooked the black to the black, the blue to the red and the white to the white. However, as I stated before, both light and fan come on via the top switch. Nothing at the bottom. Then I switched and capped off the hot red wire, hooked up the whites and hooked up both blacks and blue together. Same result as before. Top switch turns on light and fan. Bottom switch does nothing. Anyone got any ideas what I might have done wrong? Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to be sure and give all the details so that it might help get an answer. Thanks.

Dave

ceilingfanrepair · May 30, 2007, 12:52 PM

Sounds like you wired it wrong at the switch, since your wiring at the fan sounds fine.

What make was the old fan?

Ceiling fan wiring - Ceiling Fans N More

loopydloop · May 30, 2007, 12:56 PM

I am not sure. Perhaps you can tell if you see it. I have it listed on Craig's List. Blue Ceiling fan motor with blades and hanging bracket

loopydloop · May 30, 2007, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by ceilingfanrepair

Sounds like you wired it wrong at the switch, since your wiring at the fan soudns fine.

Ceiling fan wiring - Ceiling Fans N More

I didn't change anything at the switch. I just popped out the old and popped in the new. Wire for wire. I'll check again, though.

Dave

ceilingfanrepair · May 30, 2007, 01:42 PM

I doubt you'll get $25 for it with the broken brackets. You could replace the brackets and sell it, or probably offer it free broken.

It's a standard fan with standard wiring. I am assuming that two of the wires at the switch are the same color and accidentally got switched. What wires are at the switch?

loopydloop · May 30, 2007, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by ceilingfanrepair

I doubt you'll get $25 for it with the broken brackets. You could replace the brackets and sell it, or probably offer it free broken.

It's a standard fan with standard wiring. I am assuming that two of the wires at the switch are the same color and accidentally got switched. What wires are at the switch?

The wires coming into the box at the switch (from the top of the box) are black, white, red and bare ground (attached to box). White wire is attached to upper right side of dual switch (right as looking from back of switch) black is attached upper left side of dual switch (left as looking from back of switch) and red is attached at the lower left side of switch (left as looking from back of switch). At the fan I have hooked white to white, black to black and blue to red. This produces the effect of the bottom switch not operating at all and the top switch turns on both fan and light at the same time. I have also tried wiring both blacks and the blue together and capped off the red. Same effect as before. Both fan and light come on with top switch, bottom switch does nothing. I think that's all I can tell you about how it's currently wired.

Dave

ceilingfanrepair · May 31, 2007, 11:12 AM

Aha. You have a switch loop.

I understand you have black-red-white running between the switch and fan. You should have another wire with only black and white at only the light or fan. Where is it?

loopydloop · May 31, 2007, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by ceilingfanrepair

Aha. You have a switch loop.

I understand you have black-red-white running between the switch and fan. You should have another wire with only black and white at only the light or fan. Where is it?

I'll check, but as near as I can tell I have black red and white and ground coming in at the switch box (at the top) and the same coming in at the fan. I'll get back to you on this, though, just to be sure.

Dave

ceilingfanrepair · May 31, 2007, 11:53 AM

Yes, but you should have two more wires at either the switch or the fan. Let me know where.

loopydloop · May 31, 2007, 01:05 PM

Okay. A picture is worth 1000 words, so they say, so I have sent photos of the configurations I currently have to your email address. Let me know if that works for you and if you have any thoughts.

Dave

Stratmando · May 31, 2007, 01:22 PM

Sounds like stacked switch. 2 hots in and 2 hots out, Hot side has a jumper joining the 2 halves of the switch, the othe side goes to light and fan.

They make a combination Light and Fan Control, and fits in 1 place(your situation)
It would allow dimming and speed control.

ceilingfanrepair · May 31, 2007, 02:12 PM

On the switch:

Switch the white and black wires. Move the red wire to the empty terminal across from it. Tell me does that work.

loopydloop · May 31, 2007, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by ceilingfanrepair

On the switch:

Switch the white and black wires. Move the red wire to the empty terminal across from it. Tell me does that work.

Well, I did as you suggested and it worked. You did it, man. The fan is up and running and looking good. Thanks for your patience and perseverance in figuring this out.

Sincerely,

Dave

ceilingfanrepair · May 31, 2007, 09:56 PM

You're welcome.

Stratmando · Jun 1, 2007, 05:55 AM

Was my answer wrong?

loopydloop · Jun 1, 2007, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Stratmando

Was my answer wrong?

No. Not really. Things happened so fast there, at the end, that I rather quickly blurbed over yours. You were right in that there were two hots in and two hots out. That we had not really figured out at that time. I am not sure what a jumper is so that part I am not really sure about. As for one side feeding the fan and light, you were correct. The problem was, quite simply, that the black and red hot wires were just on the wrong side as was the neutral wire. Once I reversed them, the switch worked as it was supposed to. I am thankful to all who gave advice on this. The more heads the better. My first experience with Askme.com was a good one. I hope someday to be able to help, too.

Thank you,

Dave

Stratmando · Jun 1, 2007, 10:16 AM

That was not a neutral wire, I Think that white(neutral) was actually hot feeding switch,
And red and black are "switch legs" to light and fan. That little jumper on switch, can be left intact, so 1 hot can power 2 switches. Some times, jumper needs to be broke, so
You can have 2 independent circuits, switching 2 different things. I am glad problem solved. Take care, Ceilingfanrepairman good source for help and info.

loopydloop · Jun 1, 2007, 11:04 AM

Thanks to all.

Dave

DWentz · Jun 6, 2007, 06:41 AM

Hello all. I have a similar problem, but my wires are all black except the grounds which are bare. Originally started with a dual (regular style switches) set-up (old house). Attempted to replace with sliders for both. Something got criss-crossed and now I can't seem to make heads or tails of it. I guess that's why there are electricians :)

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Stratmando · Jun 6, 2007, 08:29 AM

DWentz, Don't know if you need to start new post.
I would GUESS that the white wires are connected in box and tucked away.
All you should have left is blacks.
Black that is source of power, black to maybe a recpticle, Black for light, another black for
Fan.
I would disconnect all blacks, Measure between ground and each black to determine feed.
Your lights are your tester. I would touch that feed to one of the blacks to determine light, Identify with Yellow?
Tape, then another to determine fan, any others would probably go with the feed.
Maybe with breaker off, connect all blacks together to make sure light and fan are in the on position.
Once you have identified the switch legs, they will go to each dimmer, the other wire of each dimmer goes
To feed. Be safe.