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tkrussell · Mar 7, 2007, 06:50 PM

Really need to see the entire interior of the panel without any breakers in it to figure out what it being done here, and need to know where the power is coming form, should be the two large wires at the top, and these breakers should not have any effect, and those jumper wires certainly do not belong there.

At least they look like they jumper from one breaker on the right directly to the one on the left.

nmwirez · Mar 7, 2007, 07:47 PM

[QUOTE=hlmccarter]Ok so nmwirez says it's a split bus. Not exactly sure what that means? Why do the two 60 amp breakers in parallel kill the power to the breakers below them? Here are some pics behind of it opened up a bit...

Here is the reason,

A split buss panel is designed such that the upper buss half is used for a main disconnect for general circuits below and it carries the larger load on the top half of the split buss.

This type of panel is no longer NEC compliant or available.

nmwirez · Mar 8, 2007, 10:04 AM

[QUOTE=nmwirez]

Originally Posted by hlmccarter

Ok so nmwirez says it's a split bus. Not exactly sure what that means? Why do the two 60 amp breakers in parrallel kill the power to the breakers below them? Here are some pics behind of it opened up a bit...

Here is the reason,

A split buss panel is designed such that the upper buss half is used for a main disconnect for general circuits below and it carries the larger load on the top half of the split buss.

This type of panel is no longer NEC compliant or available.

I need to jump in here one more time. This is to clarify the back-to-back meter box through-wall conversion to a 200 Amp main disconnect panelboard. This requires a meter relocation from the work platform (grade) clearance to the meter. Check with the POCO before making any panel changeout decisions. They hold the magic key, not the building department. Usually a meter height from grade will be about 5 or 6 ft. On a down slope the POCO will allow 7 feet.(rarely) nm

tkrussell · Mar 9, 2007, 03:54 AM

So what is the verdict on your panel? Did you find where the power is fed into the panel? Did you look behind the breakers? We really would like to know what those two 60 amp breakers have to do with shutting off the power, when they should have no effect. The power is suppose to be coming in the on the two large wires connected to the lugs of the panel at the top, and feeds the two bus bars that are in behind all the branch breakers, including the two 60 amp breakers at the top. The wire terminals should only be hot when each breaker is on, as each breaker connects to power once they are plugged onto the internal bus bar.

The suspense is intense!

hlmccarter · Mar 9, 2007, 05:13 AM

After I pulled everything apart I found a split buss panel as nm proposed (although it didn't look like any I could find on the internet). Those 60 amp breakers each supplied power to the lower part of their respective sides (those wires actually completed the break in the buss circuit that was much lower than I expected). When you trip those 60's the lower buss loses power.

My only question now is whether I can up the amperage of those two breakers to provide more than 60 amps off each of the lower busses. My guess is I shouldn't do it and I'm getting quotes to have the entire panel replaced but since everything appears to be in working order and I understand the safety implications I might hold off a bit until I save enough to replace it.

Thx for everyone's help.

tkrussell · Mar 9, 2007, 06:03 AM

Don't modify the panel any more than it is, and get the panel replaced as soon as you can.

Not a serious safety issue, as you know the bottom section of the opanel is only rated for 60 amps. Split panels are not norammly fed in this manner, does it appear to be factory made or "field modification"?

labman · Mar 9, 2007, 06:22 AM

Thank you for the update.

I didn't understand any of the breakers had power with the top ones off. With the split lower, the ones above it still would have power. If the 60's aren't tripping, you shouldn't get any more power by replacing them. If you did replace them, you might have to replace the wires with larger ones.

Unless you find and throw a disconnect to the feed, outside the box, I would put all the breakers back in and leave it that way. It would be safer putting the breakers back in if you found a disconnect. One slip, and touch the energized buss, and you are fried. A breaker somewhere protecting the incoming wires is required.

I am a bold DIY and likely go beyond where I should. I would button that panel up and leave it, until I could afford a professional.

That may be sooner than you think. Nobody can count on getting away with foisting off a Mickey Mouse set up by an unlicensed installer in violation of code. You were sold a house with a 200 service that must have met code at the time it was installed. Have a professional come and inspect it, and give you a estimate on what is needed to to make it the code compliant 200 amp service you paid for. That should be free. So should at least the initial discussion of the problem with the lawyer that handled your closing. If you didn't have a lawyer, talk to the Realtor. They represent the seller, but an ethical one will realize you have the law on your side. Your lender should back you and perhaps direct you to a good lawyer.