[Adispatcher]

My husband & I adopted my 4 yr old daughter a couple months, prior to that she was living with, adopted by my parents. My mother, going through some kind of mid life crisis, left my father, in which my husband & I stepped up & asked if we could adopt my daughter back. My mother was all for it & my father was very sad about the whole situation period that was happening to him, but he knew my daughter should be w/me, her biological mother, so he agreed too. My grandmother & my dad still talk to my daughter. My mother is nowhere to be found. Anyway, my grandmother & my father warned my husband & I that my daughter at times humps pillows for whatever reason. It was always awkward when they would catch her doing it so they didn't say anything to her about it. Since my daughter has been w/us, I'm noticing a lot of sexual things she's doing & saying. I'm a stay at home mother w/both her & my 10 month old son so I see & hear these things for myself. I've caught her twice in my bedroom on top of the bed w/her shorts off & underwear on, sitting on top of the dog humping him... my husband & I have caught her multiple times stick her pretend walky talky antennas down her underwear & rubbing her private w/it, along w other toys of hers that are long like an antenna... I've caught her once straddling our 10 month old... we have caught her in her bedroom under a blanket rubbing herself either with her fingers or her foot... every morning when we wake up she has her shorts off & tells me she got hot in the middle of the night... she walks around in just her underwear constantly refusing to put her clothes back on.. ive caught her w/her legs spread on her back on her bed at night touching herself... her & I take our shower together so I can help wash her, she says things to me like, "you like my pee pee mommy" & then she rubs it, and whenever I let her wash herself she goes right to her pee pee first & washes it. (Oh & before I forget, she complains every other day that her pee hurts & itches, this has been since she first started staying w/us.) When we are out of the shower & I'm putting powder on her, she says, "eat my coolie (butt) mommy. you like my coolie" while she bends over. I always tell her to stop & that those areas are private & I've even tried asking her where she heard that from & she just gets all bashful & starts throwing out random names. Last week I was sitting on the couch, her on the floor w her toys & I am 95% she says w/her toys, "hurry up, RUN before we get raped!". I said to her, "what did you say?!?" & then I asked her again in a way like its okay whatever she said I wasn't going to yell at her. She finally stood up & yelled nothing & ran into her room & shut her door.
We brought her to the pediatrician yesterday for the first time since she's been w/us & I told her all the things my daughter has been doing, including the fact she's severely self conscious when she wears a bathing suit or if her stomach is showing period, she freaks out & insists on covering herself up when we are in our bathing suits because she says "everyone will stare". Our pediatrician at first was saying it might be related to the anxiety she has & been put through, it may be a calming thing... but then when we went on to tell her all the other things she's doing like everything I put in this, she got very concerned & said she used to be a molestation doctor prior to being pediatrician & it sounds to her like my daughter possibly was molested. She wanted to do an exam but my daughter was freaking out & wouldn't even let her check her ears throat & heart. She gets terrified to do almost anything. So her pediatrician gave us a perscrp for zoloft & said first thing we need to calm her nerves so she will let her do the exam. We have to cut a tiny little pill into fours & give my daughter one of the tiny pieces before bed. Last night was the first night, but I can't wait until this pill kicks in. my nerves are going crazy! I'm terrified & can't relax. I'm not showing it around my kids, but as a mother I'm sorry I can't wait another day, I need to just know. I want her to be checked. I'm waiting for the pediatrician to call me back, I want to tell her I cannot wait. Please, can anyone give me any suggestions or what they think about the things my daughter has been doing??

[JudyKayTee]

Anyone would only be guessing. It certainly SOUNDS like something happened.

You need to follow the advice of your pediatrician and then go from there - I know of ny way you can solve this problem without the help of a Physician and, as I said, this sounds like extreme behavior which has a cause. This sounds like a lot more than being exposed to movies on TV.

Was the adoption from you to your parents legal? And the reverse adoption? I don't quite understand the history here.

I am confused because a few months ago you were in love with another man, made mention of your son but no mention of your daughter - https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relati...ed-537787.html

Here you are in contact with your mother - https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/other-...er-573730.html - yet now she is nowhere to be found.

Your daughter appears to have gone from chaos to chaos - from you to your parents and then back again. Has the Court looked into any of this from the child's point of view?

[Adispatcher]

When I delivered my daughter, I was young, single & terrified of being a mother... I wasn't ready, though sometimes I wonder if its because I was going through post partum because I also went through post partum after having my 10 mth old. My parents officially adopted my daughter when she was 3 months old, although it was something my father never truly wanted to do, my mother told him she wld leave him if he didn't follow through w her... (meanwhile, my youngest sister moved out of their house all in the same year... mid life crisis?) I didn't mention my daughter in other posts because it was more of me "moving on", knowing that she was w/them, paperwork was signd, there was nothing to do about it so why bring her up to have to explain the whole situation, I hope that doesn't sound terrible, but hopefully you understand what I mean. My husband & I have been together for almost 4 years, during the time my mention of "another man"... was also soon after my sons delivery... I was going through a lot of hormonal changes... post partum blues is what it was diagnosed as. My husband & I sought counseling frm the pastor that married us, everything turned around & was better after several sessions & lots of communication & time spent together, my husband & I. so please disregard that post... how embarressing.
My mother & I have never had a close relationship. She's kind of always been an offball but she was a wonderful mother when my sisters & I were little but she was very selfish in many ways as we got older. Plus she comes from a screwed up background w/her own family, she left them & stopped talking to them & no one ever knew why. As I said, this whole thing w/my mom leaving my dad was very sudden, she told him she didn't love him anymore & didn't want to be w/him anymore, she ended up leaving him for some guy she knew frm HS years ago. She also began a new position at work & was hanging out w/younger women & dressing younger, going out on the wkends & neglecting the time she normally spent on my daughter.. her hair wasn't always brushed & her clothes were mismatched at times. My dad noticed things were different, but then she dropped it on him that she was leaving, its been very ugly ever since on my moms end. When I heard the way she was acting before she left my father & then how she actually told my father she was leaving, immediately I emailed her being as nice as can be, asked her if having my daughter was too much that I've always wanted her back & would love to have her w/me & her little brother & that my husband was supportive (which he was). She agreed & within like two days brought over my daughter & sooo much of her stuff. My dad was so upset because it was like he didn't have a say, she picked my daughter up from daycare & dropped her off at our house. She was here w/us ever since... so yes, its been very traumatizing for my daughter I'm quite sure, and trust me the biggest most hardest thing I have to live w/is missing the last 4 yrs of her life, as her mother. I never thought the day would come where she wld be w/me again. I thought moving on & getting over the fact she wouldn't be w/me was what I was going to have to live with. I couldn't be happier that she's w/me, w/her brother & my husband now. And my dad still sees her. She's doing exceptionally well though adjusting, better than she was the first month or so. We do see a counselor every so often to explain things, trying to take the right route & we were given advice to seek a specialist two hours frm us who specializes in reattachment disorder which might possibly be what my daughter is or could potentially go through. We haven't started that yet, we are still figuring everything out & the adoption just became final as of a month ago. We thought the worst was just about over.. but then the whole thing at the pediatricians office, I knew deep doubt something had to be wrong w/the sexual behavior my daughter displays. I'm still waiting for pediatrician to call me back, my insides feel like their turning to mush I'm just so incredibly nervous.

[Wondergirl]

Your daughter's sexual acting out has nothing to do with her being bounced back and forth between you and her parents.

I advise you to find a good therapist who deals with childhood trauma and sexual abuse. Will your pediatrician refer you to someone in the area?

[Adispatcher]

I'm sure she will know who to refer us to. She was the one who referred us to the psychologist we saw twice so far. We told that psychologist about the behavior but she listened to like the first sentence of it & said its caused by anxiety & to calm her, and I was kind of aggravated because I had a feeling deep down it was more than that but like she was just shrugging it off. Wondergirl, do you think it sounds like she's been molested? Is there anything normal or possibly is this just a phase or do you think this really means something? Trust me, we will go as far & spend as much as we have to to get the proper help. First thing first is her pediatrician wants to do an exam on her to see if she has been molested... but again, I cannot wait another day. I'm terrified myself & just want my daughter to get the proper help she needs to cope w all of this.

[Wondergirl]

wondergirl, do you think it sounds like she's been molested? Is there anything normal or possibly is this just a phase or do you think this really means something?

From how you described it, yes, I believe something has happened and maybe still is happening to her, and more than once.

first thing first is her pediatrician wants to do an exam on her to see if she has been molested

I haven't done therapy with molested children, so I don't know the best way to do this, but as a mom, it seems to me that another person examining her private area isn't a good idea unless it is done very, very carefully in a search for tissue trauma. Getting her to a reputable therapist who deals with this sort of thing is definitely necessary, because you want this molesting to stop by giving your daughter the tools to say no, if something is still going on.

[JudyKayTee]

Your daughter's sexual acting out has nothing to do with her being bounced back and forth between you and her parents.

I advise you to find a good therapist who deals with childhood trauma and sexual abuse. Will your pediatrician refer you to someone in the area?

Just to be clear - I was not suggesting that the child's behavior was connected with being taken from mother to grandparents to mother.

I was asking if these were legal adoptions, approved by the Court, purely as a separate matter. I find the circumstances highly unusual.

[Wondergirl]

Just to be clear - I was not suggesting that the child's behavior was connected with being taken from mother to grandparents to mother.

I should have tried to pull together some of the OP's quotes (but didn't, since they are so scattered). I had gathered from her (not you, Judy) that the family's ups and downs may have something to do with causing the child's sexual acting out. I don't believe that's true at all.

I too wonder about the "adoptions."

[Adispatcher]

You BOTH don't have to wonder about the adoptions. Both were very much legal & I have proof of BOTH in a an envelope sitting on the desk next to the computer I'm typing on at my house, court judgements w/legitimate signatures of real judges. And if you must know, us adopting my daughter back was done as a relative adoption, so yes, it was indeed complicated, but from what I heard frm several knowledgeable people as well as two lawyers that we spoke with, this is a very common thing. Grandparents have legally adopted their grandchildren before, and the mother HAS adopted them back in time. In more cases it was cases where the mother was in & out of jail or into drugs. w/my situation, that was never the case. I work for a law enforcement agency & my husband is a paramedic. There is no mystery other than the fact my daughter was possibly abused in the past. I'm a mother who finally has her daughter back, something I thought wld never happy & now I'm dealing w/this potential abuse that may have been done to her & its traumatizing for myself & for her I'm sure. So if you could please, direct your answers and opinions back to my question about possible abuse, again because your answers are just opinions, and refrain frm bringing up the adoptions because they are legal & I didn't feel there was a need to have to explain myself or justify the adoptions. But here I just did. So moving right along.

[JudyKayTee]

I have a problem with your attitude - my questions were not out of line. I work in the legal field, the same as you work for a law enforcement agency. I think "legal" and I'm sure you think "enforcement." I was questioning whether a Court would approve two adoptions involving the same case of people in about 4 years.

A simple, "Yes, the adoptions were legal" without the "if you must know" commentary would have been sufficient. I don't need to know where you keep the envelope which holds the documents

You post your life on an open board, you can expect comments you neither want nor expect. I'm sorry you took the question the way you did - but you posted on an open board.

Your comments toward WG were entirely out of line - I have an edge to me. No question. I have NEVER seen WG post an unkind word, unnecessary criticism, unkind thought. If she asks it's because she NEEDS to know.

This was not a witch hunt. You posted that you regretted signing the adoption papers, that you needed guidance and did not get it - thus, the adoption, your parents couldn't parent you but were/are parenting a grandchild (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/adopti...er-463954.html) Asking if the adoptions were legal is not out of line.

So - back to the topic at hand -

[Wondergirl]

you BOTH don't have to wonder about the adoptions.

I asked only because you brought it up and gave very sketchy information that made me think the adoptions were a word-of-mouth thing rather than a legal thing, that maybe your daughter was acting out sexually in response to possibly being confused as to who her caregivers were/are. I'm glad to find out the adoptions were legal.

there is no mystery other than the fact my daughter was possibly abused in the past.

So you do have a solid suspicion that something was (and still is?) going on?

[Adispatcher]

Wondergirl, I appreciate your kindness twds this situation. As if I don't have enough to deal with, reading that other email from judy is it? I refuse to look twice. Its unfortunate when emails/text/writing in general are taken wrong, out of context. I was trying to make myself clear in the fact that the adoptions were very much legitimate. We obviously don't all know each other well enough to judge how we are "talking thru email". Anyway, all of this as you can imagine is very heartwrenching, for everyone involved. The more & more I think about this whole possibly molestation situation the more I'm wondering, could this just be her acting out? I don't know. Her pediatrician called me back & advised that she would like to still check her, possibly Monday, but at this point I shouldn't show anxiety & I should just try to relax, because nothing about what has happened at this point can be changed. It happened, if it did. And she said this also could just be signs of relief for her, she realized something felt good & continued to experiment w/it. I do not have solid suspicion, in fact I even asked my family members who were w/her all the time, who saw her at daycare etc. they can think of no one who would do this and my dad was very adiment on trying to get my daughter checked possibly even today because he wanted to know. She hasn't displayed anything sexual today, even touching herself. The zoloft she took yesterday has even calmed her down a bit today, at first I didn't think so. But she didn't get in trouble once today & she was more calm & cooperative than normal? Coincidence? I'm not sure how quick that stuff works. The pediatrician said to hold off on giving her anymore at this point anyway, that when she sees her Monday she will decide if we shld continue giving her the zoloft.

[Wondergirl]

wondergirl, i appreciate your kindness twds this situation. as if i dnt have enough to deal with, reading that other email from judy

Yes, as you say, reading typed messages across the Internet makes it hard to interpret how the other person is feeling. We (you and Judy and me especially) can't see each other's body language and facial expressions, and we can't hear voice tones. Both Judy and I have your daughter's best interests at heart, and neither of us wants to sit weeping over the situation. We are both problem-solvers who want to immediately dig in and figure things out. (She's an investigator and I'm a librarian -- see what I mean?) If we have come off as too unsympathetic, that's not what was intended. We really are worried about your child and want things to improve for her.

I have two grown children of my own and have studied child development in college and in grad school, plus did a long internship at Catholic Charities, counseling young families. My best guess is that your daughter is mimicking something she has learned from someone in her own life. There's too much detail, too many specifics of things she should not know at her age.

[JudyKayTee]

And it appears there are other problems with behavior ("& she was more calm & cooperative than normal? Coincidence?), which also can indicate abuse. All acting out is not sexual.

I've investigated several child abuse matters from the point of view of defending, not prosecuting. Who else babysat (or babysits) with the child other than the Grandfather, either male or female?

[JudyKayTee]

My sister is a social worker with Child Services in NY. She frequently gets called in on molestation (or suspected molestation) cases. Her comment (and I appreciate that this is third person info) is that she has NEVER in all her years of working heard a child at 4 years of age (or, in fact, younger than 8) use the word rape in connection with the child's experience. The only time she has heard that word used is when the child's behavior is mimicking something he/she saw on TV, movie, computer, something else. No molester uses the word "rape" when speaking to a child - to the best of her knowledge, of course.

She also said the moment the child displays sexual behavior when showering with a parent (same sex or other sex) that's the time to remove anything which could trigger sexual behavior from the child's life - and that includes parental nudity, joint showers and the like. While this behavior is normal and a part of family life it is harmful if the child is possibly the victim of molestation - and is confusing to the child, triggering role play.

Again - just repeating my sister's thoughts. (She was confused that the OP is a stay at home mom who works in law enforcement. It would appear that it can't be both. She did say, however, that someone with connections in law enforcement would be aware of resources in these situations, and that's a good thing.)

[Adispatcher]

I appreciate both of your opinions & suggestions. As you can probably imagine, it's been a very stressful last few days. We have an appt w my daughters pediatrician tmrw, to get an exam & hopefully finish the rest of her other check up.. eyes, ears & heart. I'll keep you both posted. It's ironic because my daughter has not displayed any sexual behavior etc since we were at the pediatricians office last week. Even in the shower, while playing etc. absolutely none, and I've been w/her 24/7. And I was never 100% sure that she used the word rape, but I was almost certain of it. But she hasn't said it since or played w her toys as if she would say it again, I've literally tried to rhyme as many words possible w that word to see if I could have been wrong. But we are still going to go to the appt tmrw. Hearing what your sister has to say Judy was also very helpful considering her occupation, I appreciate the feedback. As for my occupation, I'm 'on call' at work right now, for the last couple months. I'm not sure yet if I will be going back or not, full time. I really enjoy being w/my children & putting them as my first priority, working the type of job I work calls for very long working hours & a bundle of stress. Thanks again for the feedback & please, feel free to write more.

[kcomissiong]

As Judy mentioned, sexual behavior isn't the only sign of potential abuse. I am more panicked by the fact that it stopped when you decided to take it to a professional. It looks very much like someone has now told her to hide it. Children that age don't often have the capacity unless they are taking direction. Please keep us updated. We are all hoping for the best possible outcome for your family.

[Adispatcher]

thank you. We went to the pediatrician today who finallyyyyy was able to calm my daughter down (she freaks when going to doctor!). She did an exam on my daughter & found there was no molestation. Pediatrician said more than likely this is all behavioral. Its obvious she has a lot of anxiety & she's still adjusting, playing w herself is more than likely a calming for her. As far as the other stuff go, nothing has been done in the last few days, I had a little talk w her myself so maybe that helped. Whatever the case, I'm just so happy & relieved that she was okay & molestation was out of the equation! Thanks again! And please, anymore advice is definitely welcome & appreciated.

[rebeccahstrean]

Steve Wilkos show I promise you he's good. I went on there and found out A lot

[JudyKayTee]

So you take your legal advice from a former Police Officer?