[jenni9]

Thank you. I had to give up pride and be blunt about my feelings, which is hard to do sometimes. I'm taking it day by day for now.

I don't want to be a "leech" and suck all the knowledge, opinions, and information out of everyone here... I've tried to "give back" to the forum, but haven't come across anything I feel knowledgeable enough to comment on.

My "specialties" are respiratory therapy specializing in sleep disorders (specifically sleep apnea) (I've been licensed since 1995, and practiced until 2003, but still keep up my license), NC real estate (have been a broker and selling for almost 4 years) and last, but not least, good old fashioned coastal southern cookin' (LOVE to cook!) Let me know if anyone has questions on any of these things! :)

Forgot to answer your questions... no I've not talked to his wife; reason being she's in a high risk pregnancy currently. And of course, not wanting to bother her with this when she was overseas; she had a lot more to worry about for herself . She's depressed, sleeps all the time (most of the time when not working... before and during pregnancy), and really doesn't care to see Jay except for when she's in the mood. I think she probably likes him being with my husband, she knows that he won't be bothering her and she can sleep. He completely disrespects her a lot of the time, which is not a good influience for my husband. He refers to her as "needy, lazy, doesn't clean, etc." I try to keep my mouth shut about it thinking maybe he's venting. I wonder if they talk about their "es" like that when they're alone. I can't imagine my husband doing that, but he apparently enjoys the company of someone who does. The only thing I've tried to talk to her about is her sleeping all the time which is not normal. We're really not that close. The last thing I'm going to do is disturb her at this point. I have to smile through a baby shower I'm giving her this weekend because SHE has no friends here also. I've literally had to almost beg some of my friends to come. Jay hinted to me that she had no friends and no one to give her a shower, so of course, I happily jump to the task.

Anyway, I don't feel I should have to go that route. I know I'm "pulling weeds instead of the root". I feel the "root" is my husband not standing up to the problem, which is allowing someone (no matter WHO it is) to interfere. I know I'm to blame for some (or maybe a lot) of it; I told Jay he was always welcome when his wife went overseas----like for dinner---I shouldn't have ASSumed that he would take it literal for EVERY NIGHT AND ALL WEEKEND. You see, that's what we say here, meaning, "my home is open to you, but you should be smart enough to know your boundaries". It's understood. You see, I've tried talking. When I do, I'm over-reacting and it's just a simplefriendship. There is no "rule book" as to how many times per week is appropriate to see him, that's where my husband is confused, and I understand from that point of view. I just ask him to use "common sense" and moderation. His "fix" to the problem is to just ignore him and cut ties completely. He says "anyway, he's probably selling his boat soon because of the new baby so he'll have one less of a reason to come here".

BUT--he should know better about this: Sat. night I had a LONG LOST friend that I haven't seen in TWELVE years to come into town. I told him all day about how excited I was about seeing her again Sat. night. Jay's wife called Sat. night before hand and asked us to dinner---My husband said, "I'm all about it but I need to check with "the boss""--------holy crap??? Seeing this friend again is what I talked about ALL DAY! And I wanted her to meet my husband!!!!!!!!! We can eat with them any damn time!!!!!!!!! That way, when we didn't come for dinner, it was all my fault to them!!!!!!!!! WHY didn't he just say, "My wife has a friend coming into town she hasn't seen in ages and we're going to a get-together where she is?" I'll tell you why: because Jay knows our other friend (through us) that was having the "party" and he would have showed up, and therefore that's why he didn't tell him/them. Whenever his wife fell asleep, he would have been there, which under normal circumstances would have been fine, but this is far from normal in my opinion.

You're right, it's not about Jay. I think it's about my husband running from the problem, whatever it may be. I have very much communicated with him------I really tried to ponder of the best and "most elementary" way to explain it, which was telling him that if someone captured both Jay and myself, and tied us to a train track with a speeding train approaching, that he would rescue him first. Of course, this made him angry. I felt like I needed to simplify my feelings somehow. Of course, I know that was an extreme example, but the only way I knew how to express my feelings in a way he would possibly understand. Didn't work. I feel like I'm "beating a dead horse" but wanted to answer your questions. I think the best thing for me to do is maintain in the best emotional state I can place myself in (trust me, it's hard sometimes) and evaluate long and hard before I make any rash decisions, and do my best to keep my composure! Pray that I make it through the baby shower! :)

[kp2171]

your resentment toward your husbands friend is not entirely misplaced.

while I agree with the posts that are trying to get you to recognize there is some failure in the marriage that your husband is trying to fill, appropriately or inappropriately, and that this failure is key to understanding if your marriage can be salvaged, be a little pi$$ed at jay and don't apologize.

he has a marriage too. He obviously is neglecting his wife. Ill be second in line to buy the "jay sucks" shirt... right after you. =)

anyway, that said, I guess all I'm doing is reaffirming what some others have said. You say your marriage was perfect before. It obviously wasn't perfect for your husband. He might have not been unhappy... but there's something he's getting from jay that important. Friendships are important... I think the best relationships are when two independent people with their own friends and own goals are able to merge together and still keep their own identities to some degree.

fine.

in the end your husband is not honoring the marriage. This is extreme and would pi$$ me off too. My wife goes out from time to time. I have enough trust in her that she can go out with the guys from work, play half the night, and get dropped off after I'm in bed. It doesn't happen often, but if she needs to unwind without me now and then, fine.

but if her friends invaded my life like this, it would not be OK. If this was his mother instead of a friend, what would people say here? Theyd say stick to your guns. Somehow the friendship role gets more slack than the mother-in-law...

so... yeah, you need to find out from him what the deal is. And it probably starts without ever mentioning jay. It starts with what about our marriage frustrates you? What are you missing? etc. expect some resistance. Expect it to take a few tries before he sees you are not trying to ambush him. Because if you really want to know the truth, it isn't about cornering him. Its about knowing the truth.

if he just doesn't get it, id suggest separation before divorce. It gives you both time to think about and feel what it means to be apart. You've had some time to think about it. He really hasn't... even if you've given some signs.

in the end... you are seeking help here. That means you're looking for answers. The first step. Next you need to try to get him to relax about the situation and talk... and after that, if it doesn't work, you need to take the steps needed to make yourself happy.

[jenni9]

I think the best relationships are when two independent people with their own friends and own goals are able to merge together and still keep their own identities to some degree.

Because if you really want to know the truth, it isn't about cornering him. Its about knowing the truth.


WOW! This place is awesome. Everyone has been so helpful. Our marriage is like that, too, full of TRUST. We never tell the "other" that they (us, me/him) can't do anything or go anywhere on our own. That's part of the GLUE that keeps (kept) our marriage strong. That's why it's been so difficult about this situation. I deeply love my husband and yes, am doing my very best under the circumstances.

Whenever we talk about what he might be unhappy about, it's that I don't spend as much time with him (boating, fishing, etc.) WELL, it's because Jay is with him ALL THE TIME while doing that stuff! I'm sick of it. We owned a house boat last year that we spent ONE NIGHT ALONE on. Guess when that was: our 2nd wedding anniversary. And to get that night, we had to ask OTHER friends to take Jay out on the boat separately so we could have it alone. For the night. He/they spent the day with us, and just left that evening. My husband's reasoning for having him on the boat always is that he helps him with lines/anchoring, etc. I can't help it that I'm not "strong" and "butch". Jay is about 6'3 and 265 lbs. and strong as an ox; I'm 5'4 and 120 lbs, by no means strong physically, but feel so weak (emotionally and physically).

Jay's wife doesn't like boating/fishing like we do. About 3 weeks ago I had all my things ready to go fishing, had bought new tackle the day before, etc. Another friend of my husband's (ours) was going along, which was very cool. I hadn't seen him in a while and he's SO funny and makes us laugh hysterically. THEN, guess who pulls up at the last minute to go... not only that, but the fact that our boat is small and there really wasn't enough room for all of us (Jay counts for two, he's a really big guy). So I made something up and didn't go in an attempt not to argue. All these things build up and I end up exploding from keeping it in.

I laughed so hard about the t-shirt comment. It's refreshing to place a little humor on the subject. :) THANK YOU.

There's so many other "stories" to tell, but it's not going to help. Just trying to shed light on what I'm going through (we're going through) This has been such a great outlet for me to express my feelings without arguing and I appreciate your thoughtfullness (everyone's) in helping sincerely!!

[talaniman]

Not to be nosey, buy does your work schedules keep you from seeing each other, or from spending a lot of time together during a typical work week? At one point in my own marriage ,I would have to work evenings and she would be sleep when I got home at night, and be gone when I got up the next morning. We where basically roommates for extended lengths of time. I found myself hanging out with friends and co-workers a lot. It created a real conflict, when we would make plans and the other wasn't really up for it or had made conflicting plans.

[jenni9]

No, we're both self employed and normally don't work evenings. We can pretty much make our own schedules, but mine seems be more difficult (as far as having to be "on call" and interrupted). I work a lot out of my home office; I tend to get more accomplished there than in my formal office. I work in real estate sales, which is stressful because I feel always at the mercy of my customers. My "motto" to new agents is: the best way to get busy in this business is to plan a trip or get sick". :) Always has worked for me! My husband would love to travel and go on trips more (even if it were just for the weekend) but my job keeps me from being able to do it a lot (last minute showings, etc.) IT's hard to plan in this business. It seems like it can be dead for weeks, and then when we plan to go somewhere it NEVER FAILS that something with my work comes up. It's actually very frustrating, especially even more that I have a lot of "high maintenance" customers at the moment. I'd love to be spontaneous and "just go" sometimes but I can't, crap, I can't even plan things most of the time. The one day I took off to go fishing with him recently one of my customers came in literally crying to the owner of the company that I worked for because the cost of something dealing with real estate was more than she expected. Makes me either want to drop it completely (real estate) sometimes or never plan anything. The only thing is I love the challenge and "the sky is the limit". I've never made as much money in my life, and I've gotten used to it. If I go back to health care my income will be cut by 2/3.

[talaniman]

My daughter is exactly the same way, and it puts a lot of pressure on the family. Just to throw it out there, could you be a little jealous of Jake? He is more available and not on call. Having been there I can understand the attachment, not that I agree, but I do understand it.

[valinors_sorrow]

This is just more of the "Jake this" and "Jake that", only with different labels on it. Until you get to what its really about, it won't be solved. And to get there you and your husband will need to have a sit down and talk frank experience. If you are unwilling to create that experience Jenn, then you remain stuck with pouring out endless amounts of the continuing saga stuff.. blah blah blah. So as I see it now, its as much your reluctance as it is his. This is the point where words mean very little and actions matter. Unless this is just about getting attention and there isn't a sincere interest in solving it?

[kp2171]

OK folks... she posted the original post 6 days ago. This had been kicking around in her head a lot longer than that. She's got some things to get off her chest. This isn't a sitcom, all problems solved in 30 minutes and done. And to expect someone who is struggling to get herself centered and done that fast is unrealistic. Am I hearing that all of us have confronted and faced all problems wed had of this level within 6 days of getting advice? If so, you're better than me.

I've had my share of posts I've gotten tired of... when the poster never took action and just needed attention. It can be maddening.

but I guess I'm missing something here. jenni9 is seeking help. She is talking openly. She has some stuff to work through. We only see her side, so who is to know what we don't hear... but all I'm hearing is impatience on this board.

if I had been talked to like this after my first major crash and burn id have never come back. Yes... take some action. Sooner than later. But man... I completely don't get it here. Each "rant" has shown me a little more about what's going on... I guess I'm willing to give it a litle more time before I declare her a manipulative, attention-getter, and that's how the sum of some of the posts are coming across.

another two more weeks of talk and no action, yeah ill be right there too.

[valinors_sorrow]

Forgive me please, if that was meant for me KP, for being so unclear. I am neither patient nor impatient, as it is not my problem and so there is little need for it to be solved for me. There is no timetable implied apart from Jenn saying she was desperate. If Jenn needs some time to think about it, why would I attempt to deny her that? I offer what I consider truthful observations meant to be helpful-- which can be agreed with or not, used or not. But sidetracking into other areas is not the same as saying I need time to think about this - and certainly someone as articulate as Jenn is capable of saying what she means (and I mean that sincerely, so please don't read sarcasm into that, okay?). If the observations I offer are hurtful, a OP only need complain and I will apologise. But if its bull some truth I have offered has crowded, then that's a different story and there won't be any apology forthcoming. I think pressure might have been read into my post when it simply was a response to what was posted - nothing more. While I can appreciate your thoughts that you gain more understanding with each post, it would be equally as fitting to appreciate that I don't have those same thoughts and my approach to solving things does work for some people. I would chalk it up to different kinds of help. ;)

[BIM]

Forgive me please, if that was meant for me KP, for being so unclear.

Val, I seriously don't think KP meant this post for you. I think (:confused: ) it was meant for some early-on posts that seemed to be very harsh straight away.

I have gone back and read your posts and do not see anything with a "time table" involved. I have always felt your inputs is very unbiased.

But I do agree with KP that there was some harsh words early-on, and I did feel bad for Jenn. But it seems as though the thread has come back around again to being more helpful than hurtful. :rolleyes:

Just my observations! No hard feelings towards anyone. I truly love this sight and feel I could get pretty sound advice when needed.

[BIM]

ok folks... all problems solved in 30 minutes and done. and to expect someone who is struggling to get herself centered and done that fast is unrealistic.

I agree with this KP. I posted in early August--and am STILL working on marriage problems-so yes, they can take a lot of time. Each situation is different and each person is at a different place with their issues.
:o

[jenni9]

Lord have mercy. Didn't mean to get anything started, I just get to rambiling on and on and don't realize all that I've typed by the sime I hit "post". It's just an outlet that I've probably abused by now.

The next time I post about this discussion it will either be one of two things: the "root" of the problem (and what we've figured it to be) and that it's being worked through, or if it's not and over. It's as simple as that. I think all of you deserve that being you've helped me so much.

I know I "blah blah blah" and I sincerely apologize if you're disgusted by now (I can understand how you would be--truly, not being sarcastic myself), I have overstepped my boundaries with the help instead of getting to the root of the problem. I just needed to talk (type). Now, I'm going to finish my work, turn my cell phone off, and try to start digging to get to that damn root. Until next time... :)

[talaniman]

Hey Jen, you are so welcome here and we all know that it takes time to get your bearing, but no hurry, We all go at our own pace. As you see we just speak our minds and that is the way its supposed to be. If your not disgusted neither are we

I have overstepped my boundaries

. Boundaries? What boundaries? I don't see no boundaries. Do you see any boundaries?

[BIM]

I see no boundaries either!! :p What the heck--talk away, but be civil :rolleyes:

Later 'gaters.

[jenni9]

Hi Everyone!

I have had WONDERFUL things happen with my marriage recently. A couple of weeks ago, the "problem" struck me like a bolt of lightning one morning while getting ready for work; it was very simply a lack or absence of loyalty to the marriage--plain and simple. The night before my husband found this site on our browser and "skimmed through" the posts, not having much time to study them. He was angry with me. That morning (when everything finally "hit home") I had adamantly made up my mind that we were going to separate and had planned to tell him when we got home from work that evening.

When he got home that evening, it was obvious that he'd intently studied what I'd wrote (my feelings) and all of the wonderful responses from you. YOU are what saved my marriage. Even though it's only been 2 weeks, it's been a 180 degree change for the better. He said he never realized it was that serious (?? ) In the meantime, the visits with "you know who" have been moderate, and his actions and body language signal to him when it's time to go home. Jay has done 3 months' work to his expecting baby's nursery in the past 2 weeks (with his wife) and has even hand made her (the baby) a beautiful dresser with her name carved in it. I"ve never seen such devotion to his wife and marriage (family) from HIM! I'm assuming that he's been talked with, or has gotten the message.

SO....a big thanks to every one of you and to this site. I never intended for him to find it; it was my way of seeking help. I'm still being very cautious; but this is a great start to a new beginning. We actually had dinner out ALONE last night; I can't remember the last time we went to dinner ALONE!!! He just seems so sincere in wanting to make a change for the better; thank you! Thank all of you from the bottom of my heart for your insight and help---maybe he needed to hear it from someone on the "outside" that it was not normal and out of control!!

[valinors_sorrow]

So very delighted to hear y'all are back on track! Bravo to everyone who is willing to accommodate good changes -- you, your mate, even ol' what's his name! LOL Another beautiful confirmation that the truth shall and does set you free - thank you Jenn. Keep at getting more honest!

(does the "happy dance" that looks remarkably similar to the way Snoopy dances!! ) :p :p :p

[ordinaryguy]

Wow, this is amazingly good news! It's so nice to know when positive changes result from all our verbiage on here. It's easy to question whether it ever really changes anything for anybody. Thank you for sharing this. You're right to continue to be cautious, real changes do take time, but the prognosis sounds really good. Hats off to your husband for seeing the light and making the necessary changes.

[BIM]

That is awesome Jenn9!! I am so glad for you! It is nice to see bad events make a turn for the good.

There could be a few 'slips' back now and again, but hopefully it will keep getting better.

I am truly happy for you. :p

[wanger]

Threaten to leave him. Maybe it will wake him up. If it doesn't leave him and see how he responds to that. If he doesn't act like it bothers him start devorce proceedings and see how he likes it. It doesn't sound like he really gives a damn and you need to stun him.

[jenni9]

Hey Wanger, I don't think you read my last post! It's on it's way to a good resolution thanks to you guys! This is actually good news believe it or not! :)