[sajjw]

I went to visit one of the boy puppies from a litter my two dogs had early last year. He is now 18 months old and although I have been in touch with his owner it was the first time I had actually visited as it is a long journey. I am really stressed and unhappy because it appears that the dog is only allowed in the house in the evening, and is confined to her small garden (or dingy garage if its raining) during the day. Her excuse is that her house is too small but I believe its more that she is so house proud. Why have a dog if you want a perfectly clean house? She clearly loves him, walks him, trains him etc but dogs are such sociable animals I can't help but feel upset that he is clearly spending long periods of every day alone and bored. At least dogs whose owners work have the weekends with company. I want to talk to her about it but am afraid of her feeling criticised. Does anyone have any suggestions? By the way before anyone screams "BACK YARD BREEDER!!!" at me, I bred this litter very responsibly, had all the necessary pre mating health checks done and vetted the potential owners very carefully, refusing many unsuitable ones.

[HamHamper]

If you are doing house checks one year after your dog is placed, clearly you are very conscientious and not a "back yard breeder". If the dog has access to food, water and shelter, you really can't do anything, I'm afraid. You can approach the owner and offer to take the dog back. Explain that it appears that she doesn't have enough time to provide proper socialization, and if she has any second thoughts, let her know that you'd be happy to take the dog back-no questions asked.

[sajjw]

If you are doing house checks one year after your dog is placed, clearly you are very conscientious and not a "back yard breeder". If the dog has access to food, water and shelter, you really can't do anything, I'm afraid. You can approach the owner and offer to take the dog back. Explain that it appears that she doesn't have enough time to provide proper socialization, and if she has any second thoughts, let her know that you'd be happy to take the dog back-no questions asked.

Spending time indoors with their owner does not constitute socialisation. Socialisation is the process of getting puppies used to the things he or she will encounter later in life by giving them the opportunity to mix with people, other dogs and exposing them to different environments and sounds. This owner has proved to me through regular correspondance and the completion of my extensive socialisation checklist that this dog was thoroughly socialised as a puppy and I know that he continues to encounter new things and people through his walks, outings and holidays and the time he does spend indoors.
Obviously if I wish to offend this owner, a consequence of which is likely that she will refuse further contact with me, I could offer to have the dog back but as I said she loves him and has worked hard to raise him and train him. There is not a chance in hell she would give him up.
As for my doing a house check earlier, I know for a fact that the dog was indoors as a puppy as there were some house training issues and I remember the owner talking about him chewing her rug. I have also received many photographs of him indoors. If you think that all responsible breeders travel sometimes hundreds of miles to inspect the home of every puppy they sell you are under an illusion. Besides which, one can tell a good home from a house check only as much as the owner wants you to. I am in regular touch with each of the ten owners of my puppies, regularly counsel and advise on various issues and they all know I would do anything in my power to help and support them. There are only three of the litter of ten that I have not actually seen yet but will be doing so at the 'puppy party' I am holding later this month for the whole litter.
Thank you for attempting to help (despite your unfair and unnecessary criticism) but I was hoping more for suggestions on how I can tactfully broach this subject with the owner.

[excon]

I want to talk to her about it but am afraid of her feeling criticised. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Hello s:

Here's your problem. You want to criticize her - yet you don't want her to feel criticized?? That's not going to happen.

What I would do, is MIND MY OWN BUSINESS. The dog is NOT being abused. However, to avoid my misplacing my NEXT puppy, like YOU did with this one, I'd have a much deeper interview with my prospects than I had with this girl.

excon

[Cat1864]

This owner has proved to me through regular correspondance and the completion of my extensive socialisation checklist that this dog was thoroughly socialised as a puppy and I know that he continues to encounter new things and people through his walks, outings and holidays and the time he does spend indoors

I could offer to have the dog back but as I said she loves him and has worked hard to raise him and train him. There is not a chance in hell she would give him up.

I know for a fact that the dog was indoors as a puppy as there were some house training issues and I remember the owner talking about him chewing her rug. I have also received many photographs of him indoors.

After reading those points: what criticism do you really have? Something you haven't said is how you "know" that the dog is outside all day long. Does the woman work? You seemed to imply that she doesn't. Does she stay home all day every day? That was the implication you seemed to be making. Is it accurate?

Did the dog seem happy and content? Did you really sell him to a bad person?

[sajjw]

After reading those points: what criticism do you really have? Something you haven't said is how you "know" that the dog is outside all day long. Does the woman work? You seemed to imply that she doesn't. Does she stay home all day every day? That was the implication you seemed to be making. Is it accurate?

Did the dog seem happy and content? Did you really sell him to a bad person?

Yes she is a housewife so is home all day and no, of course she is not a bad person. When I arrived to visit, I was led through the garage to the back garden. The garage had a dog bed and cushions in it and the garden had a very small dog house. We chatted in the back garden for a while and then without going into the house took our dogs for a walk. When we got back, we left the dogs in the garden as they were a bit wet and muddy and went in to have rest and drink. As I was leaving, I said to her, "I suppose you will leave him outside now until he dries off" and the reply I got was "Oh, he is always outside during the day, my house is too small for him to be in. If it's raining he goes in the garage". He is a lovely, friendly slightly bouncy dog in good condition. He seemed happy but of course he would be as he was with us. Maybe I'm over-reacting but I keep imagining him moping all day because he wants to be around his owner. They are emigrating from the south of England to San Francisco next month (taking their dog) so I hope their new house is bigger and he can come in during the day but as I said I have a suspicion he is left out to keep the house clean as it was so spotless she is clearly very houseproud. I think I just need to stop obsessing about this issue. Thank you very much for your input though.

[Silverfoxkit]

Do you know how much time outdoors the owner spends with him? The owner might possibly spend a large portion of time with the dog outdoors instead of vice versa. He might even enjoy being outdoors more. I have met a few dogs that hated being cooped up inside and would prefer to lounge outside.

The most important thing is the dogs health and happiness. If the doh is healthy and happy then you should ease your mind and not stress out over it.

If it bothers you this much then perhaps if you raise a future litter you could stipulate in the contract how much time the dog should be inside every day. Without that though, and with the dog being happy and healthy then the only thing you could accomplish by pushing this matter would be alienating the owner.

[Cat1864]

This may be a strange question in a way, but are you worried about him moving so far away? I know he hasn't been what could be termed close, however, another country is another matter.

[Alty]

Sajjw, I know we've had our arguments in the past but I'm hoping that you listen to my advice.

I know it must be hard thinking that you gave a puppy to what you determine to be an unideal home.

The thing is, you did point out a lot of good qualities that this person has.

I feel the same way you do. Dogs belong with their family, they are pack animals, need to belong to the group. Being alone in the yard all day is not ideal.

However, you also stated that you really don't know for sure that this person isn't spending a lot of time with the dog. He seems happy, is trained, walked, loved. Not all people like to have a dog indoors. I don't think those people should get dogs period, but, if they treat the dog well, who am I to judge?

My 3 shedding machines live indoors. They have a big yard to play in, but as soon as they scratch to be let in, they are. They're my little shadows, follow me around everywhere, to the point that I'm constantly tripping over them. I love it, wouldn't change a thing.

It sounds like this pup is being treated well. The situation isn't ideal, I agree, but, at least this poor pup isn't being used for backyard breeding, puppymill breeding or being placed in a shelter where his life is on the line.

I understand, truly I do, but maybe you're overreacting?

[shazamataz]

One question...
Did you ask her before she bought the dog if it was going to be an indoor or outdoor dog?

If she stated that the dog was going to be inside all the time then you can strike up an argument.

If you did not ask this question then unfortuntely there's nothing you can do.

It's important when selling puppies to enter into a contract with the potential buyer.
Usually a contrct consists of:
Spaying/Neutering by a certain age
Return of puppy if unable to care for anymore
Return of puppy if living conditions not suitable

You would consider the living conditions not suitable for the dog so that is why a contract is so important.

Personally I do not like dogs being left outside during the day but at least with an Irish they are a larger dog who could defend themselves.
He does get let in during the evening (although where does he sleep at night?)
He does receive love (obvious through the fact she walks and trains him)

I would not be too concerned persoanlly but it is up to you whether you want to talk further about the issue with the lady.

[sajjw]

This may be a strange question in a way, but are you worried about him moving so far away? I know he hasn't been what could be termed close, however, another country is another matter.

Yes when I first heard about this move I was heartbroken (in fact I'm embarrassed to admit I even cried) but I have spoken to a few people about it and they made the good point that at least she loves him enough to take him with her so I have come to terms with it to a certain extent now. I am concerned about him being scared on the plane especially as I have been told that dogs are not allowed to travel if sedated but am trying not to think about it as there is nothing I can do. I am still welcome to visit after the move happily so am considering doing so maybe next year. I know they will keep in touch via e-mail in the meantime.

[rex123]

Sajjw, I know we've had our arguments in the past but I'm hoping that you listen to my advice.

I know it must be hard thinking that you gave a puppy to what you determine to be an unideal home.

The thing is, you did point out a lot of good qualities that this person has.

I feel the same way you do. Dogs belong with their family, they are pack animals, need to belong to the group. Being alone in the yard all day is not ideal.

However, you also stated that you really don't know for sure that this person isn't spending a lot of time with the dog. He seems happy, is trained, walked, loved. Not all people like to have a dog indoors. I don't think those people should get dogs period, but, if they treat the dog well, who am I to judge?

My 3 shedding machines live indoors. They have a big yard to play in, but as soon as they scratch to be let in, they are. They're my little shadows, follow me around everywhere, to the point that I'm constantly tripping over them. I love it, wouldn't change a thing.

It sounds like this pup is being treated well. The situation isn't ideal, I agree, but, at least this poor pup isn't being used for backyard breeding, puppymill breeding or being placed in a shelter where his life is on the line.

I understand, truly I do, but maybe you're overreacting?

Great advice Alty... I tried to give you a greenie but it wouldn't let me... But what you're saying is true. I'm happy to hear about sajjw, they seem like a very responsible breeder. Unfortunately though not all dog owners are the same. I know even looking at me and my grandpa, the differences are huge. I always have my dog with me wherever I go but I do not let him run free in fear of him getting injured or running away, I recently trained him to an inground fence and he is allowed to run free in our yard, but only in our yard not in other peoples. My grandfather believes that he doesn't have much of a life because he doesn't get to run and he says that a big dog like him shouldn't be in the house so much but that is my dogs life he loves being in the house or wherever I am... So you can see maybe this owner has a different way of training... I don't know but it sounds to me like she is a good owner, although it would be nice if the dog were aloud in all day, it is good that she takes him in at night, it shows that the owner does definitely care for the dog.

Keep checking in on her and as others suggested ask if they need any help, tell them that if for any reason they can no longer keep the dog then you are more then willing to take care of him.

[sajjw]

I understand, truly I do, but maybe you're overreacting?

I think you might be right. I am judging on how I know my four dogs would feel if they were not with me during the day, but of course being indoors is what they are used to. If this dog is accustomed to being outside/in the garage I suppose he knows the routine and although he wouldn't choose it, he copes a lot better than I think. My is too old for another litter and her daughter is not suitable so I won't be doing it again for many years. If I ever do (which I doubt, because it's a bit like having children in that when you have them you set yourself up for a lot of worry!) I will be giving each prospective owners the spanish inquisition rather than just checking the usual stuff like experience, garden, home during the day etc. Thanks for your advice Altenweg.

[friend4u178]

I think you should remember too that Dogs sleep a lot more hours per day than Humans do.

My Dog (RIP) was an indoor Dog but during the day when I was at work it was outdoors , purely because that was a far better invironment than being stuck indoors all day. And a lot of that time during the day he was sleeping.

[JudyKayTee]

You seem to be a responsible breeder - what does your contract of sale say about where the dog is housed?

I had a very expensive GSD some years ago and just about everything from food to shelter to whether the dog would be fenced or tied and so forth was covered in the contract. The breeder looked over my shoulder for almost 4 years before she relaxed a little bit.

In a nutshell - she should not have been a breeder. I've had dogs my whole life. My dog was well taken care of and I resented the intrusion. However, I wanted the dog and signed the contract.

Since that time I've worked with rescue groups and one of them still makes house checks after 6 years.

If this is upsetting to you, cover it by contract the next time you breed your dog. Can you enforce the contract if you're unhappy? I don't know - you would have to ask an Attorney. My neighbor thinks my dogs need more companionship. I'm a widow, I work. I spend as much time with them as I can and I also have a pet sitter who comes in on the long days and plays with them.

Everyone has a different opinion about what the dogs need!