[arcura]

Altenweg,
Well... that depends on how you look at it.
Perhaps I should have said licit.
I believe that in God's eyes a marriage that does not include Him spiritually is illicit.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Ashriel]

I don't know the book, chapter and verse but somewhere it says in the KJ version "That if a man deflowers a virgin let him mary her"

My view is if two people in love and that are going to spend their lives together then they are already married.

I agree. Also with Altenweg.

I think there needs to be flexibility with God's word, because we do live in completely different times. I think there are specific, all-encompassing messages in the Bible that cross cultures and time frames, and those are the things we need to focus on as Christians. Loving God with every part of us, loving others with every part of us, and being the people God made us to be.
I believe that as long as we operate in love, truth, compassion, and wisdom, we are following the right path. As long as we know Jesus and His great sacrifice for us, and we try to mirror that great love in our own lives, I think we are getting it right.

I honestly believe that the tendency of Christians to get caught up in legalities and rules and who's right and who's wrong, and which denomination is OK and which is misled, causes many people to be turned off completely to God and causes us to miss what life is really all about: Loving others. Jesus didn't walk around spouting rules and regulations. He walked around healing the sick, feeding and loving the poor in material and spirit. He walked around giving hope and joy to those who didn't have any.
That is my goal in life.
And I continue to seek God everyday, and seek His good for my life.
As far as sex before marriage, and homosexuality, and drug/sex/alchohol addictions, and prostitutes, and the hopeless and aimless, I am choosing Jesus' way, the way of loving all and respecting all. And making the choices in my life that reflect that.

[arcura]

Ashriel,
So me what God says is iron clad.
If He says fornication is a sin (as he does say it) then it is a sin.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[ohsohappy]

I agree. Also with Altenweg.

I think there needs to be flexibility with God's word, because we do live in completely different times. I think there are specific, all-encompassing messages in the Bible that cross cultures and time frames, and those are the things we need to focus on as Christians. Loving God with every part of us, loving others with every part of us, and being the people God made us to be.
I believe that as long as we operate in love, truth, compassion, and wisdom, we are following the right path. As long as we know Jesus and His great sacrifice for us, and we try to mirror that great love in our own lives, I think we are getting it right.

I honestly believe that the tendency of Christians to get caught up in legalities and rules and who's right and who's wrong, and which denomination is ok and which is misled, causes many people to be turned off completely to God and causes us to miss what life is really all about: Loving others. Jesus didn't walk around spouting rules and regulations. He walked around healing the sick, feeding and loving the poor in material and spirit. He walked around giving hope and joy to those who didn't have any.
That is my goal in life.
And I continue to seek God everyday, and seek His good for my life.
As far as sex before marriage, and homosexuality, and drug/sex/alchohol addictions, and prostitutes, and the hopeless and aimless, I am choosing Jesus' way, the way of loving all and respecting all. And making the choices in my life that reflect that.

Sorry about the incomplete greenie, I was trying to do it from my iPod, didn't work so well
Anyway what I was trying to say is that I agree completely. Especially about the part where you said

I honestly believe that the tendency of Christians to get caught up in legalities and rules and who's right and who's wrong, and which denomination is ok and which is misled, causes many people to be turned off completely to God and causes us to miss what life is really all about: Loving others. .

This is what turns me off the most. I get this impression that either I do things the way that these religions say that I have to (which most interpret differently anyway) Or I "go to hell" Pretty sure that's not the way God runs things. I think it's the way people try to run things to make others conform to their exact beliefs.
If God didn't want diversity in the world, then why would he create it?
If God discriminated against Homosexuality, then WHY would people be BORN homosexual? Why would God make someone that way just to deny them his Kingdom? Would a kind and loving God do that? I don't believe so.



Sure it can be argued that "God created Diversity so that we can find our way to the right path on our own" but I think that's a load of BS.


I think that God created Diversity in beliefs and religion and opinion so that we can learn from one another and be able to believe or practice in whichever way is best for us. He gave us the choice of HOW to worship and believe.
He also gave us Free will, and by doing that, means that he KNOWS that people won't always do what's considered "good" NOBODY ALWAYS DOES THE RIGHT THING. Everyone has screwed up in one way or another.
I believe that if we really truly live with love in our hearts and try to make the world a better place, then God will forgive us of such Trivial things. That's why he sent Jesus in the first place right?
You can't tell me that He sent his Only son to die for us, so that we will be forgiven of our sins, just so he can send us to hell, or deny us Heaven.
Kind of a Double standard Don't you think.

[classyT]

OhsoHappy,

Unfortunately God is NOT the author of confusion so he didn't create diversity in beliefs or sin. It is what it is. I don't mean to be unkind. I know what you mean or what you are trying to say. It is just that the Bible teaches otherwise. The Bible says There is a way that seems right to a man but the end is death. ( spirtual death)

I won't tell you that The Father sent his son so die for us just so he could deny us heaven. BUT I will tell you what the Bible says... If thou shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead... you will be saved. ( you are NOT denied heaven)

I am a sinner saved by the blood of the Lord Jesus and not to continue IN sin but to be convicted and repent when I do. I still sin sometimes. It is a truth for everyone... and the Bible asks this question to everyone... What will YOU do with the Christ? It is a choice to go to heaven or hell. No double standard at all... :)

[arcura]

ohsohappy,
The way we are born is the result of the consequenses of this world as are earthquakes, volcanoes, monster storms and such.
Contrary to what some believe they are not acts of God.
I understand what is being said about different denomination beliefs.
In my case I tell no one that they are going to hell for I really don't know for sure who is going where and neither does anyone else.
That is the job of God ONLY.
So I think it is very wrong for anyone to say so and so is damned.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[classyT]

Fred,

That is true... we are not the judge of someone's heart. Only the Lord knows.

[arcura]

classyT,
Thanks,
Fred

[sndbay]

I would add that God's Word has shown us the division between right and wrong. It was shown from the beginning by what Adam and Eve accepted from satan. And the actions of man continue to example what is written of the human man. Watch all actions to see right or wrong.

God does permit man's delusion in the liberty to choose and that liberty includes ignoring HIS presence and HIS helping hand if you choose. However God is surely there for the asking if the heart wants it. AND the prince of this earth, satan, is there to do his evil temptations.

~in Christ

[classyT]

Ash,

A verse in 1 corinthians 6:18

Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.

I believe you said your Bible didn't actually say fornication. So I used a version like your Bible... it is still done against your own body. God hasn't changed his standard.

The Lord Jesus (the Bible records) is the SAME yesterday, today and forever.

[sndbay]

Loving God with every part of us, loving others with every part of us, and being the people God made us to be.
I believe that as long as we operate in love, truth, compassion, and wisdom, we are following the right path. As long as we know Jesus and His great sacrifice for us, and we try to mirror that great love in our own lives, I think we are getting it right.

Certainly appears in the light of what Christ has offered, and not of darkness.

I honestly believe that the tendency of Christians to get caught up in legalities and rules and who's right and who's wrong, and which denomination is ok and which is misled, causes many people to be turned off completely to God and causes us to miss what life is really all about: Loving others.

Agree

Jesus didn't walk around spouting rules and regulations. He walked around healing the sick, feeding and loving the poor in material and spirit. He walked around giving hope and joy to those who didn't have any.
That is my goal in life.

I would have to say Jesus did give to some parables in teaching, as well as everything you have mentioned. (Mark 2:4 And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine)

Luke 8:10 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

I think people forget that Christ HIMSELF washed the feet of HIS disciples for a huge example.

And I continue to seek God everyday, and seek His good for my life.

Amen

As far as sex before marriage, and homosexuality, and drug/sex/alchohol addictions, and prostitutes, and the hopeless and aimless, I am choosing Jesus' way, the way of loving all and respecting all. And making the choices in my life that reflect that.

A great choice..

1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps

His image and steps are righteousness

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of HIM in peace, without spot, and blameless.

[arcura]

sndbay,
I also agree much with what Ashriel posted.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[CraftyD]

The Bible is a fantastic work of myth and fiction that was written by multiple authors to try and put their own spin on things.
God is the only one that can judge you, his so called "disciples" have nothing to do with your relationship with God or your choices. We were given free will for a reason, it is Man that puts boundaries on us.

[arcura]

CraftyD,
That is your opinion and perhaps what you believe but I disagree 100%.
I and about 2 billion others believe that the bible is the inspired word of God.
There is much evidence that it is the inspired word of God.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[classyT]

Crafty,

If you understood just how RIGHT on the bible is concerning prophecy... you'd be a little embarrassed. It is true that men actually wrote the Bible, but when you study it... you begin to realize... ain't NO way it isn't God's written word. No book could predict what it has and have it come to pass 100 percent. The odds against it happening are staggering. And then of course there is the JEW! The prophecies about that race alone are amazing. What other country became a nation in a day? ( after 2000 years of not having one) all that and more the Bible foretold and it happened to a T!

BUT... and it is a big deal to God... Without FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM BECAUSE HE THAT COMES TO THE LORD MUST BELIEVE THAT HE IS AND IS A REWARDER OF THEM THAT DILEGENTLY SEEK HIM.

So even if I could somehow PROVE to you how accurate the Bible is... it takes faith to believe. Heck, the Lord Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead and many jews stood and watched. MOST left unbelieving... it is ALL about faith.

ohsohappy,

Of all the miracles the Lord has done... the virgin birth appears in MY mind to be very believable. I mean he parted the Red Sea and millions of hebrews walked across to the other side... the bible records NONE of them were lost. The Lord aloud a donkey to talk for heaven sakes... stopped time, turned regular water to wine and sent a perfect food called mana down from heaven to feed the Hebrew children in the wilderness... NOT to mention creating the earth and mankind and throwing the stars in the sky kind of like an after thought. Believing the virgin birth and Jesus walking on a water hard to swallow?. please that is KID STUFF. Lol Again, it takes faith and I believe EVERY single word of the Bible! :)

[Alty]

I have to ask. If God is so involved in our every day lives, cares so much, where are the miracles now?

So many magnificent miracles in the bible, but then poof, it all stops.

Why?

[artlady]

I have to ask. If God is so involved in our every day lives, cares so much, where are the miracles now?

So many magnificent miracles in the bible, but then poof, it all stops.

Why?

Out of greens but a question that begs for an answer to be sure.

[classyT]

Alty,

He does still perform them. I have seen and heard about pastors and people praying over someone who has cancer and have been told they have less than 6 months and then because of prayer they have been healed. So individually or as the body of Christ.. it does happen.
BUT:
Here is the thing, the Lord isn't dealing with the Jewish nation right now because they rejected him. ( he deals with all of us, Jews, and Gentiles individually... but I'm speaking of as a nation).. but after this "Grace Period" or the Church period is over, God will again start dealing with the nation of Israel again. There will be all kinds of miracles during the tribulation. AND never forget that the Jews had no land for over 2000 years... because of rebellion, because they rejected the messiah but the Bible predicted they would become a nation again. And they did.. May 14, 1948 a nation born in a day... another prediction, another miracle. ALSO you should read how Israel was able to protect their land and win the 6 day war in the 60's. WOW was the war EVER fixed! Miracle after miracle. You should read some of the accounts written by men who aren't even Christians! Yes, God is still in the miracle business!

[artlady]

The bottom line is this.The Bible was written by men as a book of law to control people.
Does it have valuable and wonderful lessons ,yes!
God knows your thoughts,I have a strong faith but my faith tells me I am not a sinner because I am with a man I have loved for 12 years and we make love without the benefit of a piece of paper.
We had a commitment ceremony and that was all we needed.
We were out at a tree and we made our vows.Sinners?
I am a sinner but not because of the love I have for my man and my choice in expressing it.
God brought us together.
Just my thoughts.

[classyT]

artlady,

I'm glad you found love. I REALLY mean that. Some people have been married for YEARS and are not loved or in love. Please know I'm not judging you... not at all. But I don't think the Bible is trying to control anyone though. In fact, it actually teaches that we are fallen sinful humans and that natured we are born with can't be controlled or can't be cleaned up even.