[jeffmiller]

To whomever can help me.

I replaced my panel box about 5 years ago and head it inspected by the county inspector. I passed the inspection and all has worked well. The last month or so I have had power problems. The lights and power outlets would flicker like their wasn't enough power getting to them. All most like the refrigerator was drawing too much power to start the compressor. I don't believe that the capacitor is bad, if it was, the compressor would draw enough power at start up to "trip" the breaker. My problem has gotten worse the last week or so. Now my power goes out completely.(This only affects half of my home. The rest of the lights and outlets work fine). Several circuits are not affected by this problem and several are.I don't have central heat and air so the refrigerator is my largest power consumer. Apparently the load on the electrical system has no affect on my power outage problem, sense sometimes the power demand is less than others and the power still goes out. The power outage only lasts for about 20 minutes then it comes back on. The reason I mentioned my panel box is because I think the problem lies in the main breaker at the top. (My breaker box has a main breaker in it instead of outside at the meter) It's a 200 amp breaker box and the main breaker is made up of 4 separate breakers with metal bridge that connects all of the switches to make one. If one of these 4 breakers is bad or going bad could it heat up and kill one of the legs supplying power to half of my circuits with out tripping the whole main breaker? I think that after one of these breakers cools down, it restores power to one of the legs in the panel box and completes the circuit supplying the power to the breakers on that side of the panel box. If the problem was a short somewhere in my home it would trip that breaker on that line. None of the breakers in my home have "tripped" sense I have had this problem. None of the breakers show signs of over heating from a visual inspection. I have not removed the panel box cover YET! The surface of the breakers appear to be OK and do not feel hot. Some times the power will go out several times a day and some times not for a couple of days. This is driving me nuts!! I have a degree in Heating and Air and I am not new to electricity. Someone please help!

Thank you
Jeff

[bhayne]

If only a portion of the house is affected, you may have a faulty subpanel breaker. Healthy breaker are either tripped or closed. They do not reset themselves afer 20 minutes. However, a refrigurator compressor does not run all the time. You can check if it really is without power by opening the door and the light not coming on.

During the outage, measure the voltage at the mains. Then measure the voltage at the refrigurator to see if they match. Try plugging the refrigurator into another outlet. Faulty breakers tend to make noises and supply reduced voltage to loads. This sounds like your case. Maybe supply the refrigurator from a different outlet to make sure the fridge is not faulty.

You may also check with your neighbors to make sure it is not a utility problem.

Best of luck.

[tkrussell]

You should have the utility and an electrican come out, either together or separately, to check the incoming line and the interior connections of your equipment.

There can be a loose or corroded connection at the transformer, the overhead connection to your riser, in the meter, or at or inside the main breaker.

Some circuits are not affected since they are on the 120 volt one leg without a bad connection.

Not opening the box without knowing what is the problem is a good thing. A fault inside a 200 amp panel can create a serious arc flash. All electricians are now required to wear the proper face shields and fire proof clothing when opening live equipment due to the hazards involved.

[bhayne]

Arc Flash is a specialty all by itself. Arc Flash standards have been adjusted so that all 240V and less systems are category 0. Category 0 means no arc flash hazzard exists. This is to aleviate any worry that residential wiring will cause serious injuries or death by an arcing explosion. A 240V arc flash is simply no longer a hazard. It will cause a 2nd degree burn at the flash point, but will cause no damage at 18" distance (which is the assumed working distance).

There is no hazard in opening up an electrical panel to look at it! If a 240V arcing fault was a hazzard, it wouldn't matter if the panel was open or closed. A panel cover offers no protection against an arcing fault unless it is specifically designed, tested and labeled as such to not only remain closed but it must also route the hot, pressurized gasses to a safe location.

As for arc resistant breakers for a 120V/ 240V panel. They were introduced before the arc flash standards were adjusted.

I don't want anyone to feel comfortable if they are inexperienced working around live wiring. The shock hazzard is deadly. The explosion hazzard was fabricated by a faulty formula when calculating the incident energy and using a second degree burn instead of arc potential to set boundaries.

[tkrussell]

What are you thinking? What kind of professional engineer are you?

Are you saying the NFPA 70E is a fraud?

Opening a 240 volt panel cover to expose live parts is a Category 1, and requires fire rated clothing, safety glasses, voltage rated gloves and tools.

The Arc Flash Boundary of 3ft 6in is not accurate? Is there any publication to support your claims?

Second degree burn is not a real hazard, or a serious enough injury? Was it my imagination after working in a 240 volt panel, the arc flash that melted metal, started a fire, and gave me 2nd degree burns? I just went to the hospital for laughs?

We true professionals in the electrical industry are working very hard to change the culture of electrical workers and train them to realize the hazards they are exposed to, and that we want everyone to go home every night with all their fingers, eyes, skin, and lives.

Your advice to a DIY is:

There is no hazard in opening up an electrical panel to look at it!

There can be a serious defect inside a panel on the verge of shorting out, that can be disturbed and provoked into an arc flash simply by removing the cover.

These and many other statements made by you exhibit the lack of knowledge, experience, and professionalism of a so called inspector and engineer.

And speaking of professionalism, you actually made the statements:

As an inspector, I will rarely pass an electrical inspection by work performed by a DIY and you will pay me for each visit.
In the end, money that you pay an electrician will simply be refunelled my way.

You actually admitted to collusion, extortion, misuse of civil authority, and ignore any reasonable code of ethics expected of an inspector or an engineer.

I am trying to get people to trust inspectors, and believe in the permitting and inspection process, and you tell them "you will fail and you will pay somebody money".

This along with many of your other comments, statements, and false facts, too numerous to quote, astound me.

I am still waiting for your response to my questions:

I do have some questions thou:

Can you provide the NEC article and section that allows overcurrent protection devices, such as you example that a 125 amp panel/breakers can handle 125 amps?
Can you also show where 3 conductors in a raceway needs to be derated?
How is that wires Randomly placed in a conduit a reason for derating?
When is 80% derating applied?

I am seriously considering forwarding many of your comments and statements to the State of Washington Professional Board, as you stated you are a member of, to see if this is the type of professionalism they stand behind.

This one is priceless:
3 phase transmits approximately 3X the power, is this a new power formula?


Allow me to correct one other inaccuracy:
arc resistant breakers have absolutely nothing to do with an Arc Flash from a panel. These are otherwise known as Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters, and were designed to detect and react to short circuit is branch circuit wiring and appliance cords.

My opinion is that you need to get some additional training In Electricity 101.

[dherman1]

My goodness, where did this, umm, "expert" get his education?

If this doofus is an inspector in the state of washingon, I would be afraid od any work that he has inspected.

As an avid diy'er who does most of the wiring around my house, I have only had two cases where my work didn't pass inspection. Both were easily corrected while the inspector was still on the premises. However, I do know my limits. When it came to replacing the main panel and running a sub-panel. I hired the pros. Once that work was inspected and passed, I did the rest of it.

BUT, I reviewed my plans with the inspector prior to doing any work to make sure that HE felt comfortable with me doing the work. (He did, thanks to some help from TKRussel who reviewed my plans first)

Getting back to the original question though...

If you have a receptacle checker (the kind you plug in to an outlet to check for grounding, polarity, etc) and make sure that the outlets affected are all OK. Do any of them feel hot to the touch?Are things getting worse?

Before you open your panel, does it feel warm to the touch?

When checking if things are hot, use the back of your hand and not the palm side. The reason being that if it is a live circuit it will cause your hand to grasp whatver it touches.

If you feel ANY misgivings, call your local electric utility and/or electrician. And have them come and sniff around. They have the tools and know how to quicjly isolate the problem.

Good Luck, Dan