[CarlyTD]

Hi all,

I am working on a three family home and need to add outlets to three bedrooms without disrupting too much of the place. The owner of the place replaced the service panels recently.

The panels are in the basement and the unit that needs the outlets is on the third floor.

I am thinking of using wiremold and surface boxes so as to not have to fix walls. ANy other thoughts would be welcome.

My problem is where to I run the wire from... I could add a breaker to the basement panel and run a wire up to the third floor for the circuit... but there is a sub panel on the third floor that runs from a 50a breaker on the panel and has a 15a and a 20a circuit running from it.

Is there any reason why I can't add a 15a breaker to the subpanel (there is room) and run 7 or 8 outlets using wire mold.

Hope that make sense.. much thanks

[KISS]

Main breaker size and the amps on the breakers don't have to add up so a 50 A panel can have ten 20 A circuits. Stupid example.

There are drill bits available at Lowe's that can drill about 4 feet or longer using a flex shaft and a separate steering wheel like thing.
They have a hole in the tip to pull back the pull string.

You would have to do some sensing with an AC/stud detector to make sure that there were no AC lines nearby. You can also use inspection cameras.

Wiremold is acceptable too.

[Pigmul]

There are a couple of things that I would want to know before making these additions. First, what is the sub-panel upstairs being used for? Second, do I want to meet code? If the answer to the first is just general purpose stuff then you should be able to safely add 7 or 8 outlets on a 15 to 20 Amp circuit. To calculate the total load of a circuit used for gen eral purposes the NEC allows 180 Volt-Amps(Watts) per outlet. This translates to 1.5 Amps per outlet at 120VAC. Technically you could do several more with a 20 AMP circuit but I would avoid maxing it out just because of all the gadgets requiring electricity in the typical home these days. Further, if you are planning to try and meet code, the NEC now requires that all outlets installed in bedrooms be protected with Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters(AFCI) This is not the same as a Ground Fault Circuit Interupter(GFCI)

With regard to the actual installation, although wiremold is perfectly acceptable it is not very pretty. It is also a hassle and it's expensive. Unless this building is really old and has no attic or any kind of accessibility I would make wiremold the absolute last resort.

That said, plan the route first, then if there is an attic I would look for things common to both the attic and the basement like plumbing pipes and duct work. They typically are installed in chases and cavities that run vertically from top to bottom, making great paths to run wiring. Also, the other gentleman mentioned long flexible drill bits, these "diversibits" as they are named come in lengths up to six feet and make a great tool for fishing wiring. Also, another trick that works very well is when you find that you have no choice but to cut into a wall or ceiling just to fish wires, cut a two gang box in an inconspicuous place such as a closet. This will be plenty large enough to get a hand in and look around with a flash light then when you are through using the hole, put the box in and slap a blank plate on it, done. Another tool you need is jack chain, when fishing walls jack chain fed from the top will fall like water (not in insulated walls) and is easy to hook with a piece of coat hanger or fish tape at the other end.

If you need more advice don't hesitate to ask

Good Luck

[KISS]

Was there a recent change in NEC rules? I believe the 180 VA per outlet is for commercial spaces only.

Meeting code also depends on what version of the NEC the AHJ uses.

[ohb0b]

Was there a recent change in NEC rules? I believe the 180 VA per outlet is for commercial spaces only.

True. The 180VA/receptacle is for commercial applications only. There is no limitation on the number of receptacles on a residential branch circuit.

Article 210 specifies the required receptacles in a residence. Article 220.82 specifies the general lighting and receptacle load to be calculated at 3VA/Sq. ft. for a residence.

So multiply the square footage of the house by three, then divide by 120 volts to determine the total amperage. Divide this by 15 to determine the number of general purpose branch circuits needed. (In addition to kitchen laundry, and other circuits required by article 210)

[tkrussell]

A few comments and questions to Carly,

Is the panel on the 3rd floor for the 3rd floor apartment? Need to confirm that it is dedicated for 3rd floor and supplied by the 3rd floor meter.

Just because there is room to add a breaker to a panel, does not mean the panel can handle additional load.

Has the local inspector been consulted and a permit applied for?

Need to check local and state law, as most, if not all states only allow non-licensed workers to do electrical work by homeowners in their own single famliy home.

Multifamily dwellings require qualified licensed workers to do electrical work, with proper permits and inspections.

The questions asked lead me to believe that you are not licensed nor qualified.

[CarlyTD]

Thank you all for you advice.

TKRUSSELL - No, I am not an electrician nor am I qualified. When it comes to electricity and plumbing, I always defer to the experts. Since I do not know and trust an electrician, I often ask the experts here so when I do interview, I am able to hold an intelligent conversation and weed out those with good ideas but not what I need. Thanks again for your input.

Also, it is a third floor apt with a new 100a panel in the basement. There is a 50a circuit that runs to an existing subpanel in the third floor apt. From that subpanel, there is a 15a circuit that runs the bath light/fan, an over the vanity light, and a GFCI. The 20a feeds kitchen recept that power the kitchen and the washing machine (dryer is elsewhere in the unit and has a dedicated 220v)

Good point on the afci. I was hoping that I could (have an electrician) run a new circuit from the subpanel and use wire mold to save the time running the circuit from the basement, etc but an afci won't fit in the subpanel...