[classyT]

Snd,

I completely, totally, utterly and wholeheartly disagree with the notion that baptism is a requirement of salvation.

Fred,

In my earlier post to you, I re read it and it sounded snotty. I didn't mean it to be.. just sos you know

[revdrgade]

What happened to verse 37??

Belief has to precede baptism.

Baptism is association with, not means of.

I agree! One of the other means of grace besides baptism is God's word. And that is what Philip placed before the man and the man heard and believed... and so asked to be baptized.

God is not stingy with His grace. He wants ALL to come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved by grace, through faith in the redemptive blood of Jesus His Son. He is redundant; in the very best sense of the word so that all have many opportunities to receive His love for us all.

That the man believed FIRST, before baptism, once again teaches us that that baptism is not a good work that man must do in order to have salvation but is given to us to activate grace or more grace in people. You did notice that the Pharisees still rejected God's purpose because they weren't baptized. They still didn't see the meaning or need for a savior.

[arcura]

I do believe that the bible clearly says that baptism is necessary.
We must be born again of The Spirit and water.
And "Mark 16:16. Whoever believes and is baptised will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned." says that both faith and being baptised is necessary.

So we do have different points of view on that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[homesell]

As I mentioned before in another answer, the people ask what works(plural) they must do for salvation. Jesus answers there is one work(singular)they must do for salvation. Believe in Him that God sent. Yes, God asks us to do other things but the other things are after we are saved, not something that helps us get saved.
Acts 16:29-31 "the Jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. He then brought them out and asked, 'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?' They replied, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.

[arcura]

homesell.
Thanks but the bible presents much more on that than just that.
Is is summed up with a faith without works is dead.
If you don't work your faith it is dead.
Fred

[homesell]

Fred, thanks for the input but you're missing my point or I haven't made myself clear. I'm saying if we ARE saved we DO good works. If we don't do good works, it's not that we lose our salvation, it's that we never had it to begin with.

[arcura]

homesell,
A Southern Baptist minister once summed it up for me by calling it the difference between a head faith and a heart faith.
Some people have a head faith and do not do as the bible says we should and must do such as being baptized, forgiving others, and obeying the commandments particularly the commandment from Jesus to love one another as He loves us.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[homesell]

Isn't that why Jesus said, "you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your, mind and all your soul."
Head knowledge isn't enough. The demons know very well that Jesus is the Christ, the only begotten son of the Father, God incarnate, but this head knowledge doesn't help them. That's why when God (truly) saves he says, "I will take your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh."

[sndbay]

As I mentioned befor in another answer, the people ask what works(plural) they must do for salvation. Jesus answers there is one work(singular)they must do for salvation. Believe in Him that God sent. Yes, God asks us to do other things but the other things are after we are saved, not something that helps us get saved.
Acts 16:29-31 "the Jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. He then brought them out and asked, 'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?' They replied, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.

We can't just take part of the gospel. If you continued to read the teaching in Acts you will see that baptism was included.

Acts 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

[homesell]

I will never deny that AFTER one is saved, the first thing to do is get Baptized. My contention is with those that believe there is something they can or must do to help the salvation process along. God does it all, Jesus said it is finished. SINCE "IN HIM we live and move and have our being" and "it is no longer I that lives but Christ that lives in me" we therefore should walk as He walked, in spirit and truth and obedience to the Father. This includes Baptism AFTER we have been saved.

[sndbay]

Snd,

I completely, totally, utterly and wholeheartly disagree with the notion that baptism is a requirement of salvation.

Actually I had only posted a difference in written scripture concerning Paul's work, and baptism.

But if we want to take this further in that baptism is a requirement. I would add the scriptures that tells us the requirement of being converted to a child of God is necessay to enter the Kingdom. A child of God does as the Father will's just as HIS son Jesus did. The willing heart of love and obedience, following in righteousness.

Mark 10:15
Luke 18:17
Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

[classyT]

Snd,

I came to Jesus as a Child... LITTERALLY, I was baptized in obiedence to him when I was in the third grade. I did it because Jesus asked me to NOT as a requirement in salvation. He finished the work on the cross.

[arcura]

homesell,
You have made a good point.
The works one does after being saved are those that are required.
If a person refuses to do them them they have not proven their faith, it was just a head faith, but some believe that is all that is necessary to be saved.
Even if that shows that the person really never was saved I still believe that a person, under certain circumstances that I have mention can lose their salvation.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[sndbay]

Snd,

I was baptized in obiedence to him when I was in the third grade. I did it because Jesus asked me to .

Exactly.... the willing love and obedience to follow..

The willing heart of love and obedience, following in righteousness.

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

When a person has question in their mind of baptism. What should be the reply is, does your heart want to follow Jesus. If that answer is YES, then be baptized.

(Luke 9:23) (Mark 8:34)
Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Is following Jesus a requirement of salvation?

[homesell]

Originally quoted from Sndbay:Is following Jesus a requirement of salvation?[/QUOTE]
Sort of kind of. The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin and leads us to Jesus, then enters into us at the point of salvation and rebirth. We then follow Jesus because we are already saved, not to get saved. If one has an emotional experience or "makes a decision" or "goes forward" without repenting(turning away from sin) or following Christ as a change of life in the new birth, then one has not been saved. That's why I say sort of kind of. It's like good works and baptism and prayer and giving do NOT "help you" to get saved. These things are a natural flow outward of the Holy Spirit/God/Jesus living inside you.

[sndbay]

Originally quoted from Sndbay:Is following Jesus a requirement of salvation?

Sorta kinda.

Did you not know that Chirst is our salvation?

The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation. (2 Sa 22:47)

And say ye, Save us, O God of our salvation, and gather us together, and deliver us from the heathen, that we may give thanks to thy holy name, and glory in thy praise.(1 Ch 16:36)

He also shall be my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before him (Job 13:16)

The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin and leads us to Jesus, then enters into us at the point of salvation and rebirth. We then follow Jesus because we are already saved, not to get saved.

There is no back door, nor is there another way to be save ? Salvation is Christ, it is the grace/love sent by the Father in Heaven
Revealed truth comes from the Father. The Father gives us Christ...Christ is our salvation and we must follow Christ because He is our salvation. He is the door and shepherd of the sheep..

John 10:29-30 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.

John 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

To use any other door is the same as a thief or robber (John 10:1)

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


It is certainly a requirement to follow Christ, because He is our way. So it is the same requirement in denying any other ways except HIS way in following HIM. Newness of life in the Holy Spirit comes by bapitsm. And baptism should be done when you can willingly confess faith, trust, and love of the begotten Son of God Christ Jesus.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

[arcura]

sndbay.
I agree.
Jesus via the grace of God IS the only way.
Fred

[homesell]

I apologise for not making myself clear. Yes, jesus is the way, the Truth, and the Life and no one comes to the Father but by Him. I was focusing on the word "requirement" and then elaborated we follow Jesus because we are saved, as opposed to following Jesus in order to "Get saved"

[classyT]

Jeff,

And there in LIES the difference... what we do to beome saved and what we do AFTER salvation... :) We are in agreement...

[sndbay]

I was focusing on the word "requirement" and then elaborated we follow Jesus because we are saved, as opposed to following Jesus in order to "Get saved"

Jeff,

And there in LIES the difference...what we do to beome saved and what we do AFTER salvation....:) We are in agreement.....

On thread.. the requirement is in whether works are necessary. Not whether those works save us, because we all know works don't save us.
The point being that faith in Christ is our saving grace, and the required or necessary work to enter the Kingdom is to follow HIS steps. (the spirit within)
If one does not do the works, then they are not saved, nor will they enter the Kingdom. It would be like having the lamp without the oil, and a path of darkness. It is as James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Reference: Psalms 85
Shew us thy mercy, O LORD, and grant us thy salvation. I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly. Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land. Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other. Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven. Yea, the LORD shall give that which is good; and our land shall yield her increase. Righteousness shall go before him; and shall set [us] in the way of his steps.


Gal 3:26-27 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.