[diyer2009]

Hello, I'm in the process of renovating a master bath. I'm at the point of setting tile for the walls and floor in both the stall shower and the rest of the bathroom. I'm wondering what order should I set the tile. Walls first then floor? Is there a preferred order? Also should I tile the area behind and under where the vanity will be?

Thanks for looking.

[Bljack]

Do the entire shower first with the walls starting at with the second row, supported on a ledger. The ledger gets place the thickness of the floor tile, + 1/8" for a caulk joint at the bottom+the size of the wall tile+the first horizontal grout joint size. Tile up the wall, then do the floor then cut in the bottom row of wall tile to overlap the floor tile.

That keeps the floor tile from getting thinset dropped on them and lets you do the walls and floor in the same day. Finally, whn you do the curb, line the curb in and out with your tile, allowing it to stand slightly proud of the top of the formed curb with the outside tile 1/8" higher than the inside tile. When they set up, you can scrape thinset over the top of the curb with the tile tops as your guide giving you a nice guide for a flat surface with a good pitch back to the shower. I'll use a rapid setting mortar for that so I can set the cub side tiles and by the time I've finished the bottom row of wall tiles, the curb sides have set up enough that there is no wait to continue.

If you hadn't mudded the top of the curb yet, you could have left the top without mud, then install the curb side tiles and then used them as a guide to screed of the mud for the top of the curb. I mention that for the people who just research info for their projects and don't ever actually post.

Same thing of you are doing the walls outside the wet areas around the bath. Since floors don't need to be level, only flat, you do the same thing as described for the shower walls, but make sure you first find the lowest point of the floor around the room. Make you measurement from that point so all your bottom row tiles can maintain a consistent joint.

Tape a plastic drop cloth to the wall and let it drape over the floor. I have 3 pieces of pvc pip and 2 90 degree angles. I fashion a "U" with the pvc pipe and lay it top of the "U" towards the wall. Flap the poly drop cloth over the pvc and you now have a dam to contain water spraying from your wet saw to the wall and anything that drops out of the wet saw water tray.

If you don't have an angle grinder to make special cuts like for the toilet flange, mark your tile layout on the floor and make those custs prior to packing up the wet saw. As you set the floor, all those cuts will already be done and any straight cuts can be made with a snap cutter.

Good Luck :)

[diyer2009]

Thanks very much for this explanation. I like the whole idea about using the sides of the curb tiles to get that slight pitch back to the shower.

One other question... I haven't done a vapor barrier behind the cement board on the walls. Is this necessary? I realize some moisture will seep through the grout on the walls but will it penetrate that deep into the wall cavity past the grout, thinset and cement board?

Thanks everyone!

[Bljack]

If you did not use a moisture barrier behind the walls then you need to use a topical waterproofer on the surface of the cement board. Probably the most readily available for you will be Redgard from HD. You apply it with a roller and you can use a brush to get the inside corners. Figure 40 sf/gallon. You'll want to do 2 coats. It's about $40/gallon

[diyer2009]

Wow, that's a serious amt of cash for such a small area or am I figuring something wrong? 3 x 3 x 4 x 8 ft high shower stall = 80sq ft right? Approx 2 gallons? Seems like pulling off the wonderboard and putting up plastic is the cheaper way to go, no?

I must be missing something...

[Bljack]

It might be cheaper but your walls are embedded in the setting layer of mud now, right?

[diyer2009]

I'm not sure what you mean. My walls are just Wonderboard screwed into wall studs. I haven't taped any seams yet and I haven't done my final mudbed for the floor yet.

[KISS]

math? 3 walls at 4' x 8' = 3*4*8

Add the ceiling and floor at 2 ea x 4' x 4'

3*32 + 32 sqft = 4 *32 = 2 * 64 = 128 sqft

[diyer2009]

I'm glad you guys can have a laugh at my expense ;) BUT if you take a look at what I wrote you'll see I was right in my estimate. Its 3' x 3' x 4' x 8' which =80 sf. At least it did when I got done with 4th grade! Thanks for looking.

Any more helpful advice is greatly appreciated as always!

Thanks

[Bljack]

Diyer 2009, believe it or not, it was your post at Floorstransformed that made me aware of this site at all, so now that I have another forum at which to spend time when there are probably other things I should be doing, let my just say THANKS A LOT MAN! :)

Yes, you can take down your cement board and install either 4-6 mil poly sheeting or 15lb roofing felt overlapping the pan liner. But, I now know you have a knee wall. There is no way to install the moisture barrier over the knee wall and fasten cement board without puncturing the moisture barrier where it goes over the horizontal plane of the knee wall. With that being the case, you can install the moisture barrier on the normal walls but you will still need topical waterproofing over the knee wall.

Reading your other posts, I don't know if you've decided on the Noble Curb or if you are still determined to screw cement board over the curb. With cement board over the curb, you would still need to install a topical waterproofer over the curb and there is still no guarantee you won't have future issues at the curb from installing fasteners through it. With the knee wall, you will still need a gallon of some sort of waterproofing membrane, such as Redgard.

If you haven't done the curb yet and you are considering using the Noble curb (really good idea) you can also order Nobleseal TS. Just get 1 ft. It's sold by the linear foot on their site. You could install the moisture barrier over the knee wall, then use a 1'x3' section over the top of the knee wall and wrapping down 7" over th top side of the knee wall. Then with the remaining 2'x1' piece, you could cut square notch and use that along the intersecting wall kind of like an outside dam corner. Then run a bead of polyurethane caulk over the joint between the two pieces of Nobleseal TS. Actually, order Noble CIS. It's the same thing as the TS except the TS has a bonding flange for overlapping layers. You won't use or need the flange. That, with the Noble Curb will be good measure and you will always sleep well at night knowing you did it top notch. Noble also does flat rate $5 shipping on all orders, no matter how much you get.

[diyer2009]

Bljack, these forums are so great! I've gotten excellent help from so many qualified people. There are actually one or 2 other forums that I've been using for tile info that are excellent. If you want those, let me know and I'll private message them to you.

As far as my project goes, I don't have a knee wall of any kind. Its pretty much an alcove style shower stall: 3 walls. The 2 side walls are about 3' deep x 8' high and the back wall is about 4' wide x 8' high. The opening is all curb (threshold). I did end up buying and installing the Noble curb which seemed to work out great so far. So as I mentioned the 3 walls are Wonderboarded and the pan liner is in place with a preslope under it. And the Noble curb is in place thinsetted to the liner and 2 x 4s underneath that.

I'm concerned that taking down the wonderboard will weaken it cos there's so many screws holding it up right now. Putting it all back might make it more brittle I'm thinking? But the Redgard seems like kind of a pain to be applied correctly. I've read some horror stories of it not bonding correctly and so forth. I'm just looking for the path of least resistance right now and definitely not looking to make more work for myself ;)

[Bljack]

There are actually one or 2 other forums that I've been using for tile info that are excellent. If you want those, let me know and I'll private message them to you.

Thanks but truth be told, I'm probably already at them :D

so 3x3 were two side walls... got it. I was heavily medicated yesterday on narco sedatives and pain meds. Still in somewhat of a daze... this is me normally :) this is me for about 2 says after a hospital trip :confused: but now I get it. ;)

the fasteners being removed shouldn't weaken the boards. I don't envy you having to re-align the holes, but if you take them down and install a moisture barrier you will be fine. Since you've got wonderboard on the walls and since it is a Custom building products item, covering the walls with Redgard now (also from CBP) and using versabond, flexbond, or megalite thinsets (also from CBP) to set you tile and then using the appropriate Polyblend (also CBP) grout will enable you to take advantage of their lifetime system warranty. 80 dollars to ensure a lifetime warranty isn't too bad, is it? I've never had issues with redgard sticking to cbu. Some like Hardi will benefit from a primer coat of 1 part redgard diluted with 4 parts water, and if you want, you can do that first, but it will go onto the wonderboard just fine. Also, you only need to take the waterproofing up to the height of the shower head, so you've just reduced the amount of sf you need to cover.

So now it's up to you. You have 2 choices and either one will work perfectly.

[diyer2009]

Great, thanks for the input again. I'll let you know how it goes.

[KISS]

Nope units don't add up: 3' x 3' x 4' x 8' which =80 sf = 80( feet^4)

If you multiply the units, you get feet*feet*feet*feet

That's foor feets, cout them. It's not square feet.

You have 3 walls of a given area added to a ceiling and floor area which are the same.

My units will be square feet. Yours isn't area or volume. I don't know what it is.

[diyer2009]

3 walls are 3 flat planes. Square feet is measured length times width. I'll break it down for you to make it simple:

wall #1: (3ft by 8ft) so...

3+3+3+3+3+3+3+3=24

wall #2: (3ft by 8ft) so...

3+3+3+3+3+3+3+3=24

wall #3: (4ft by 8ft) so...

4+4+4+4+4+4+4+4=32

now 24 + 24 + 32 = 80. See how that works?

I'm not sure why you keep adding the floor and ceiling since neither of those were never mentioned. Even without them your math makes no sense.

[KISS]

OK, I included floor and ceiling and had a 3' x 3' x 8' shower and tiled 3 walls because one is a door.

You math should have been something like: 2 walls@3'x8' + 1 wall@4'x8'

Then you answer is in sqft.

[Bljack]

The perimeter thickness of the mud preslope of approximately 1", plus the uniformly 1.25" gives 2.25" of height multiplied by the perimeter linear measure of 10' gives 1.875sf of deducted wall square footage resulting in an actual 78.125sf; not that any one is counting :p

[diyer2009]

Excellent calculation!! :D