Check out some similar questions!

sassyT · Oct 1, 2008, 11:59 AM

I know God Exists. So why do people like Cred claim people like me dont KNOW we just Believe.

Originally Posted by arcura
... I KNOW God exists. He proved that to me. It is far more than just belief.

Originally Posted By Cred. Dear Fred : You say you know, but you can not prove that to be so. Therefore I'll accept that as your BELIEF, not as reality.

For you your belief may be or seem your reality. For me and many other billion people it is not reality. For it to become that reality you have to prove it to be so by showing OSE.

Have a nice day, Fred !

I found this dialogue pretty interesting... Acura Said he Knows God exists and Cred. Insists that he does not know he just believes.

If I say I know God exists and someone claims I dont know, that just means that person BELIEVES I don't know unless they can provide OSE that I do not know God exists.

Its kind of like this.. I am wearing a red shirt right now. I know I am wearing a red shirt, now you can choose to believe or disbelieve me but the fact still remains that know I am wearing a red shirt. So if you choose to believe that I don't know I am wearing a red shirt, then that is just your BELIEF unless you can prove it to be true.
Same goes with God, I know without a doubt that God exists whether you BELIEVE I do or not. That's just a fact, I know God exists. ;)

NeedKarma · Oct 1, 2008, 12:01 PM

A red shirt is different than something invisible.. jus' saying.

starfirefly · Oct 1, 2008, 12:02 PM

Some people need proof, like you believe what you see, you can't tell someone what to believe

Choux · Oct 1, 2008, 02:07 PM

You believe strongly in GodAlmighty, sass.

There is absolutely no independent proof(scriptures are not proof of anything to do with supernatural stuff) that GodAlmighty exists... there is visual proof that a red shirt exists.

Religion is called faith by everyone... not fact.

Credendovidis · Oct 1, 2008, 05:31 PM

The problem here is the mis-use of the meaning of the verb "to know".

So let's start defining what is meant / not meant with "TO KNOW" in this respect.
Sassy : you and Fred mean with "to know" that it is a reality, not that it is just your personal perception. In this specific case the unsupported claim that "God" exists.
But the existence of "God" has NEVER been a reality, because it is based on BELIEF. So the use of the verb "to know" here is incorrect.

I will be the last one to state that you may not BELIEVE that "God" exists.
Fine with me : BELIEVE whatever you like, but expect opposition from me, when you declare what you BELIEVE - like the existence of "God" - a fact beyond debate and/or argument.

It is rather funny to see that people like Sassy - who has the habit of attacking real science and the "scientific method" (and even Scientific Theories) on a regular basis on extremely minor and/or often irrelevant arguments - get totally upset and start lamenting when someone addresses the TOTAL LACK OF EVEN ONE SINGLE IOTA OF OBJECTIVE SUPPORTIVE EVIDENCE for the many dogmatic religious claims, which Sassy herself (and Fred himself) BELIEVES to be "true", but insist at the same time that what they BELIEVE is reality by pronouncing what they BELIEVE as "knowing".

I have stated to Fred - long before Sassys opened this topic - that as far as I am concerned he may see that "knowing" as a personal reality, but in no-way it adds to what Fred BELIEVES any additional reality flavor (other than for Fred). The same goes for Sassy, and for anyone who BELIEVES something.

I have stated the following before : to use this "to know" trick is more or less an indication that whatever a person BELIEVES is not good enough anymore for him/her, and has therefore to be pronounced in a comparative higher degree, as if that BELIEF itself is inferior to "to know".

An interesting starting point for another discussion, I think!

Sassy (and Fred) can close this discussion quick and fast by stating that what they say "to know" is just their personal perception of what and how they BELIEVE, and does not mean that it is reality (other than for themselves). If they do, I see no reason to object to THAT meaning of the use of "to know".

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

.

.

pimp_mah_alpaka · Oct 1, 2008, 05:42 PM

Who cares what he says. You know God is real, and if he says you only believe then say OK and walk away. We all have our own beliefs and opinions but if you know something or someone is real, then don't let anyone's words take you away from what you want to believe in. And what you know is what you know and he shouldn't stray you away from Him (aka- God) Hopefully that made sense.

Choux · Oct 1, 2008, 09:31 PM

Just like any experience so closely intertwined with powerful emotions, religious faith feels like fact to those who experience emotions moving within. This is "emotional knowing" specific to the individual.

It is emotion that makes *faith* so powerful... tempts people to *believe* in the unseen.

70541 · Oct 2, 2008, 01:49 AM

I believe and know from experience but he has a huge sense of humor

This is in fact a real image I lost just the plain image

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture...d/Thelight.png

NeedKarma · Oct 2, 2008, 02:02 AM

Easy on the goatse 70, you don't want to get banned. ;)

belmondo · Oct 2, 2008, 02:24 AM

I think in this world we just need to respect and understand we all have different views and beliefs, mainly because we have all walked different paths. I have faith and it is personal to me and I wouldn't expect anyone to understand that. Just all be happy in your lives.

pimp_mah_alpaka · Oct 2, 2008, 05:20 AM

No matter how many people answer this post, we're all going to have different views. Isn't our culture make us who we are today? Isn't what we believe in make paths for us to follow? Were all going to have views no matter what

sassyT · Oct 2, 2008, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

The problem here is the mis-use of the meaning of the verb "to know".

So let's start defining what is meant / not meant with "TO KNOW" in this respect.
Sassy : you and Fred mean with "to know" that it is a reality, not that it is just your personal perception. In this specific case the unsupported claim that "God" exists.
But the existence of "God" has NEVER been a reality, because it is based on BELIEF. So the use of the verb "to know" here is incorrect.

Yes the existence of God has never been a reality to YOU. However it has been a reality to me and many other Christians. ;)

I will be the last one to state that you may not BELIEVE that "God" exists.
Fine with me : BELIEVE whatever you like, but expect opposition from me, when you declare what you BELIEVE - like the existence of "God" - a fact beyond debate and/or argument.

Just because you have not come to know God, does not mean I don't know Him.

It is rather funny to see that people like Sassy - who has the habit of attacking real science and the "scientific method" (and even Scientific Theories) on a regular basis on extremely minor and/or often irrelevant arguments - get totally upset and start lamenting when someone addresses the TOTAL LACK OF EVEN ONE SINGLE IOTA OF OBJECTIVE SUPPORTIVE EVIDENCE for the many dogmatic religious claims, which Sassy herself (and Fred himself) BELIEVES to be "true", but insist at the same time that what they BELIEVE is reality by pronouncing what they BELIEVE as "knowing".

Again your beliefs in a washed up mythical theory of evolution where a mouse shares a common ancestor with a palm tree is not science. It is a belief system in the guise of science.

I have stated to Fred - long before Sassys opened this topic - that as far as I am concerned he may see that "knowing" as a personal reality, but in no-way it adds to what Fred BELIEVES any additional reality flavor (other than for Fred). The same goes for Sassy, and for anyone who BELIEVES something.

Again Cred. These are just your BELIEFS, unless you can provide objective supported evidence that proves that I do not know God. ;)

I have stated the following before : to use this "to know" trick is more or less an indication that whatever a person BELIEVES is not good enough anymore for him/her, and has therefore to be pronounced in a comparative higher degree, as if that BELIEF itself is inferior to "to know".

You can argue until you are blue in the face that I do not know God but if you can not prove it, its all nothing but hot air subjective babble. :rolleyes:

Galveston1 · Oct 2, 2008, 01:41 PM

All you skeptics need to do a little reading of fairly recent history. Find out what happened on Azusa Street in Los Angeles from 1904-1910.
I'll let you have the fun of looking it up. I only have dial-up and searching with that is a loooong process.

wildandblue · Oct 2, 2008, 01:53 PM

Actually Cred used to be a Christian in the past but has since fallen away and now he is a Humanist.

Cred old pal I actually have been kept awake nights thinking about how in the next world we will see each other not through a mirror, darkly, but face to face, but you will spend most of your time saying, "this isn't real. I must be dreaming"

Lord, I await the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come... but just don't let me and him be neighbors, then pleeeeeze

DrJ · Oct 2, 2008, 02:12 PM

Admitting that you cannot scientifically prove that God exists does not take away from the level of belief you have in Him.

Stop taking it so personal.

To "Know God" is completely different than being able to say that you "know God exists".

I am not an atheist so don't give me any religious, dogmatic crap either.

It is just plain and simple fact.

It is that mentality that discredits religion in the first place. If you want to be heard, speak intelligently.

wildandblue · Oct 2, 2008, 02:26 PM

What sassy is saying is that they should have to disprove the existence of God to her, not the other way around.

michealb · Oct 2, 2008, 02:57 PM

How do you know the right god proved it to you?
By proving it to you didn't this god take away your free will to not worship him and if he can take away your free will why not prove it to all of us?
How do you know your not being fooled by some minor god?
Some god that wants to take you away from the truth?
If you say because you know, are you really so sure of yourself that you think you couldn't be fooled by a god even a minor one?
What about the other people who know there god exists and were told to do something completely different are they making it up?
Isn't it just as likely that there is no god and your believe is simply a by product of evolution and culture?

DrJ · Oct 2, 2008, 03:03 PM

It's not valid, nor logical, to say God exists.. if not, then prove it.

You can't just assume everything is true until it is proven to NOT be true.

It is quite the opposite. You have to assume that nothing is true until it is proven. That is basic problem-solving.

Alty · Oct 2, 2008, 03:51 PM

If I said I know aliens exist, would you expect me to prove it, or would you take what I said as fact?

Of course not, because that would be ridiculous.

I believe in God, but I don't know without a doubt that he exists. I have no proof, therefore I cannot say with absolute certainty that He exists.

Sassy, you can "know" in your heart, but you can't claim that he does indeed exist to everyone. To you, yes, but others need evidence of that claim.

The bible isn't evidence, so you'll have to come up with something other than that to convince everyone of what you claim to know. Personal experiences aren't proof either, because they are only addressed to you.

If you had proof of Gods existence then it would be foolish for anyone to deny Him. No such evidence exists.

michealb · Oct 2, 2008, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Galveston1

All you skeptics need to do a little reading of fairly recent history. Find out what happened on Azusa Street in Los Angeles from 1904-1910.
I'll let you have the fun of looking it up. I only have dial-up and searching with that is a loooong process.

Azusa Street Revival - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So a bunch of people got together and worship with a charismatic leader.

Read about this man
Jim Jones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
He had many people join him and worship god with him rich, poor, black, white. Same story slighty different out come. They all claim they knew god.