[sassyT]

Science is only beginning to catch up on what God had man record in the Bible from ancient times. The Bible never claims to be a Science text book but when it does speak on nature, biology physics etc it is absolutely accurate. So what has taken man thousands of years to gain wisedom of, has been in the Bible all along. Here are just a few examples..


1. Numbering the stars.

Genesis 15:5 says the stars cannot be numbered by man. Jeremiah 33:32 explains the stars are beyond numbering. And yet before the telescope was invented, man was numbering the stars. Hipparchus said in 150 B.C. there are exactly 1,026 stars. 150 years later a Roman named Ptolemy said there are 1,056, Kepler counted 1,006. Since Galileo invented the telescope in 1608, we continued to discover more stars. Up until the last few hundred years until the discovery of the telescope there were only 6,000 stars seen by the naked eye. A modern telescope of 200 inches estimates 100 billion stars in our galaxy alone. And there are not millions but billions of such galaxies. The Biblical scientific insights were far in advance of four modern day science. Today, with our technology and high powered telescopes in space and astronomers estimate that there are 100 billion stars in our galaxy with an additional 20-100 billion galaxies in the universe!

2. The Bible had refuted the flat earth theory long before scientists actually disproved it
Isaiah 40:20 says "He sits enthroned above the sphere of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in." For centuries, man believed that the earth was flat. Christopher Columbus was criticized for setting sail to the other side of the earth, they expected Columbus to sail off the edge of the earth. When people thought it was flat God told us it was round. If they only read the Bible...

3. The Earth's Suspension in Space
Job 26:7 says "He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing." Early man thought Atlas, a huge turtle or elephants held up the earth. Today we know it is gravity that holds the planets and stars in their orbits making them appear to be hung on nothing.

4. The water Cycle
In recent history science taught that most clouds are formed by evaporation of water from the ocean, but the Bible recorded this centuries ago. Ecclesiastes 1:6-7 says "The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again. "
“The phrase, 'the wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course' is an accurate and astonishing description of the circular flow of air around the earth, called the 'jet stream,' well known to anyone who watches the evening news weather reports
Job 36:27 "For He draws up the droplets of water, They distill rain from the mist, Which the clouds pour down, They drip upon man abundantly." The condensation and evaporation only known in recent years.


5. Oceanic Hydrothermal vents
These are described in two books of the Bible written before 1400BC—more than 3,000 years before their discovery by science.
Job 38:16 tells us there are springs in the sea (this was not known until 1913 when they found underground rivers).
Genesis 7:11 "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened"

6. Ocean Currents
... and the fish of the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas. (Psalms 8:8) we now know there are ocean currents and that many fish swim the paths of these currents.

7. The Bible also says that each star is unique.


1 Corinthians 15:41 says
"There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory."
All stars look alike to the naked eye.* Even when seen through a telescope, they seem to be just points of light. However, analysis of their light spectra reveals that each is unique and different from all others.

Just to say a few...

Bottomline.. God knew all along cause He made it all :)

[De Maria]

Science is only beginning to catch up on what God had man record in the Bible from ancient times. The Bible never claims to be a Science text book but when it does speak on nature, biology physics etc it is absolutely accurate. So what has taken man thousands of years to gain wisedom of, has been in the Bible all along. here are just a few examples..


1. Numbering the stars.

Genesis 15:5 says the stars cannot be numbered by man. Jeremiah 33:32 explains the stars are beyond numbering. And yet before the telescope was invented, man was numbering the stars. Hipparchus said in 150 B.C. there are exactly 1,026 stars. 150 years later a Roman named Ptolemy said there are 1,056, Kepler counted 1,006. Since Galileo invented the telescope in 1608, we continued to discover more stars. Up until the last few hundred years until the discovery of the telescope there were only 6,000 stars seen by the naked eye. A modern telescope of 200 inches estimates 100 billion stars in our galaxy alone. And there are not millions but billions of such galaxies. The Biblical scientific insights were far in advance of four modern day science. Today, with our technology and high powered telescopes in space and astronomers estimate that there are 100 billion stars in our galaxy with an additional 20-100 billion galaxies in the universe!

2. The Bible had refuted the flat earth theory long before scientists actually disproved it
Isaiah 40:20 says "He sits enthroned above the sphere of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in." For centuries, man believed that the earth was flat. Christopher Columbus was criticized for setting sail to the other side of the earth, they expected Columbus to sail off the edge of the earth. When people thought it was flat God told us it was round. If they only read the Bible...

3. The Earth's Suspension in Space
Job 26:7 says "He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing." Early man thought Atlas, a huge turtle or elephants held up the earth. Today we know it is gravity that holds the planets and stars in their orbits making them appear to be hung on nothing.

4. The water Cycle
In recent history science taught that most clouds are formed by evaporation of water from the ocean, but the Bible recorded this centuries ago. Ecclesiastes 1:6-7 says "The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again. "
“The phrase, 'the wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course' is an accurate and astonishing description of the circular flow of air around the earth, called the 'jet stream,' well known to anyone who watches the evening news weather reports
Job 36:27 "For He draws up the droplets of water, They distill rain from the mist, Which the clouds pour down, They drip upon man abundantly." The condensation and evaporation only known in recent years.


5. Oceanic Hydrothermal vents
These are described in two books of the Bible written before 1400BC—more than 3,000 years before their discovery by science.
Job 38:16 tells us there are springs in the sea (this was not known until 1913 when they found underground rivers).
Genesis 7:11 "In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened"

6. Ocean Currents
....and the fish of the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas. (Psalms 8:8) we now know there are ocean currents and that many fish swim the paths of these currents.

7. The Bible also says that each star is unique.


1 Corinthians 15:41 says
"There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory."
All stars look alike to the naked eye.* Even when seen through a telescope, they seem to be just points of light. However, analysis of their light spectra reveals that each is unique and different from all others.

just to say a few...

Bottomline.. God knew all along cause He made it all :)

This is a keeper! Do you have a website I could bookmark for this info?

Here's another one. The Bible reveals the electro magnetic field which surrounds the earth:
Genesis 1:6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so.

We now know that the electro magnetic field protects us from the solar winds. If it were not in place, the waters of the earth would blow away into space.

We have also learned that there is more water in space than there is on earth. On earth it is pooled together, but in space it is spread out through the galaxy.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[Credendovidis]

With all respect for your religious beliefs : you are wasting your time on these senseless arguments. Believe whatever you prefer to believe.

The Bible is intended as a religious and philosophical manual for human beings, not as a scientific work.
Therefore the topic's line of thought is meaningless creationists babble.

:D :rolleyes: :p :) ;) :D

[inthebox]

Yes religious belief, scientifically confirmed. ;)

Agree, that it was not intended primarily as a scientific work - that changes with time.

The bible is first and foremost about God and our relationship to Him. :D

[Credendovidis]

The bible is first and foremost about God and our relationship to Him.

That is what you BELIEVE !

:rolleyes:

[michealb]

And all of this information was known by man before the bible was written. Read a book about what knowledge ancient man really had. You will find out that people who studied (the people who could write stories) knew many things that the common people couldn't even dream of. All this shows is that the people who wrote the bible had studied the natural world. If you knew how much the Greeks actually knew in their time you would be shocked. It's a real pity that much of this knowledge has been lost to the ages and we are just now finding this information out again.

[Credendovidis]

If you knew how much the Greeks actually knew in their time you would be shocked.

I have a pretty good idea how much they knew, and how much went lost.

It's a real pity that much of this knowledge has been lost to the ages and we are just now finding this information out again.

Yes. And the greatest loss were the fires in the Alexandria Library (on four occasions) by :
- The (unintended?) fire during the Alexandrian War (48 BC)
- The Aurelian conquest attack (around 270 AD)
- The Christian Patriarch Theophilus of Alexandria on request of Christian Emperor Theodosius (391 AD)
- The Muslim conquest (around 642 AD)
So at least 2 out of 4 caused by religious fanatics!

But lets not go overboard : although much was known before the AD period, modern science is the source of lots of entirely new knowledge of which the Greeks had no idea. Nuclear, chemistry, astrophysica - just to call three - only got serious substance by modern inventions that made further discovery get snowballing into more and more new discoveries ! Science never before went as fast and as deep as it is going today ! And that is what worries most creationists and drives them into their senseless attack against theories on evolution and origin of the universe...

:)

[michealb]

I was thinking as now as in the modern era of science now(the last 150 years or so). We are of course more advanced today than we were them. It's just a pity that those cultures were destroyed and not allowed to go forward. The destruction of the greek culture alone probably delayed us by 1000 years or so of knowledge.

[Galveston1]

Pardon me, but the Grecian empire came MUCH later than Moses. You again mis-represent.

AND:

The book of Genesis is primarialy a history book. There is no claim that I know of that Moses didn't rely on various records and oral history when he wrote Genesis. All of this extra material that you say was incorporated into Genesis constitutes that OSE Cred is always harping about. Keep up the good work.

[De Maria]

And all of this information was known by man before the bible was written.

Really? You can prove that?

Read a book about what knowledge ancient man really had. You will find out that people who studied (the people who could write stories) knew many things that the common people couldn't even dream of.

The people who could write stories? You mean they imagined this stuff? Or how did they know? Did they have powerful telescopes? Did they dream about it?

All this shows is that the people who wrote the bible had studied the natural world.

Is that what they said? That they learned this from studying the natural world? Which one of them went into the ocean to study the currents?

If you knew how much the Greeks actually knew in their time you would be shocked.

Try me. Tell us how much the Greeks knew that would shock us. Because I'm pretty sure we have a good idea of what the Greeks knew, what they philosophised and what they assumed.

It's a real pity that much of this knowledge has been lost to the ages and we are just now finding this information out again.

If you have evidence for all this, please show us. I'm interested.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[De Maria]

I have a pretty good idea how much they knew, and how much went lost....

- The Christian Patriarch Theophilus of Alexandria on request of Christian Emperor Theodosius (391 AD)
- The Muslim conquest (around 642 AD)
So at least 2 out of 4 caused by religious fanatics!
....

:)

The destruction of the Alexandrian library was simply the fall out of war. I don't know about Muslims, but we can trace Christians confirming their theological conclusions with Greek classical philosophy throughout the centuries.

Do you have a letter or some other proof that either the Christians or the Muslims were commanded to destroy the classical works of the Greeks? Or is this just something else you believe without evidence?

Sincerely,

De Maria

[michealb]

First to answer Galveston the greeks are just an example, I use them because I've studied their culture more than the other ancient cultures. However the timeline for Moses according to "bible-history.com" is 1525 to 1407. The ancient greek culture goes back to about 1800BC to 86BC with the sacking of Athens by Sulla. I could have just as well said the Egyptians since they were also an advanced culture that had more knowledge in their day than many people give them credit for.

To answer De Maria,

Really? You can prove that?

Yes. Go study anchient cultures.

The people who could write stories?

Yes. Writing in ancient times was reserved for the very intelligent and the rich.

You mean they imagined this stuff?

In this case no although some of it might have been assumed like they probably assume the underwater volcanoes part although maybe not there might have been one close enough to the surface for them to see it.

Or how did they know?

Observation and complex mathmatical formulas.

Did they have powerful telescopes?

No but for the most part they didn't need them.

Did they dream about it?

Depends on what you mean by this, most people dream about ideas they have.

Is that what they said?

Yes

That they learned this from studying the natural world?

Yes isn't it interesting what you can learn with time and observations.

Which one of them went into the ocean to study the currents?

The sea fareing ones. Any culture that relied on fish would know where to fish and would know that there boat moves in the currents and where those currents are.

Try me. Tell us how much the Greeks knew that would shock us.

How about robotics? The had many complex machines that did all sorts of things. The robotics technology of the ancient greeks wasn't matched till Leonardo da Vinci.
They also not only knew that the earth was round but they knew how big it was within a 1% margin of error. They knew the tilt of the earth's axis. How far away the sun and moon where. It is really amazing some of the things they knew. Without the aid of modern equipment.

[Credendovidis]

The destruction of the Alexandrian library was simply the fall out of war.

There were 4 major destructions :
1 - The (unintended?) fire during the Alexandrian War (48 BC)
2 - The Aurelian conquest attack (around 270 AD)
3 - The Christian Patriarch Theophilus of Alexandria on request of Christian Emperor Theodosius (391 AD)
4 - The Muslim conquest (around 642 AD)

With nrs. 1 and 2 we can talk about fall out of war.
With nr. 3 there is definitely deliberate destruction for religious reasons :
In 391, Christian Emperor Theodosius I ordered the destruction of all pagan temples, and the Christian Patriarch Theophilus of Alexandria complied with this request.
With nr. 4 it also was deliberate destruction for religious reasons :
Caliph Omar ordered the destruction AFTER the city was taken. (Accordingly to the written report by Christian Bishop Gregory Bar Hebræus. The Library's holdings either would have contradicted the Koran or they were superfluous, so they were all burned to warm the bath water of the Muslim solders).

Do you have a letter or some other proof that either the Christians or the Muslims were commanded to destroy the classical works of the Greeks? Or is this just something else you believe without evidence?

Strange that you always accept pro-religious wild claims without any retort, but demand OSE for a historic wellknown fact.

:D :rolleyes: :) :p ;) :D

[Alty]

Michaelb, I found your post about greeks very interesting. I'd love to learn more. What books can this information be found in? Or are there any links on the internet that are a good source of information on this topic?

Cred, of course the Christians want OSE that you are correct, because they can't provide any for their faith. This is a way to frustrate you and eventually wear you down. This is what I went through for 10 years at Catholic school.

I cannot give any evidence of God, there is none. I do believe in God, without proof. The difference is, I don't expect anyone to believe what I believe. I don't need to bring anyone "into the fold". I'm happy here all by myself with my beliefs.

Of course, as a Deist, I don't have a mission to convert anyone. :)

[michealb]

Check out the History channel's "What the ancients knew." Other than that the information isn't well organized which is one of the reasons that people don't understand how much information has been lost through the ages.

[Alty]

Check out the History channel's "What the ancients knew." Other than that the information isn't well organized which is one of the reasons that people don't understand how much information has been lost through the ages.

Thanks, I will, always eager to learn new things, even if they're sometimes over my head. ;)

[Credendovidis]

Cred, of course the Christians want OSE that you are correct, because they can't provide any for their faith. This is a way to frustrate you and eventually wear you down.

That person still has to be born, as some here should have noticed by now - if they were more open-minded !

Of course, as a Deist, I don't have a mission to convert anyone.

As Secular Humanist - the same here !

:)

[De Maria]

There were 4 major destructions :
1 - The (unintended?) fire during the Alexandrian War (48 BC)
2 - The Aurelian conquest attack (around 270 AD)
3 - The Christian Patriarch Theophilus of Alexandria on request of Christian Emperor Theodosius (391 AD)
4 - The Muslim conquest (around 642 AD)

With nrs. 1 and 2 we can talk about fall out of war.
With nr. 3 there is definitely deliberate destruction for religious reasons :
In 391, Christian Emperor Theodosius I ordered the destruction of all pagan temples, and the Christian Patriarch Theophilus of Alexandria complied with this request.

Pagan temples. But not libraries. And this is simply a quote with no reference. Do you have a source document? Or a fragment perhaps?

If not, then you are simply jumping to conclusions without OSE.

With nr. 4 it also was deliberate destruction for religious reasons :
Caliph Omar ordered the destruction AFTER the city was taken. (Accordingly to the written report by Christian Bishop Gregory Bar Hebræus. The Library's holdings either would have contradicted the Koran or they were superfluous, so they were all burned to warm the bath water of the Muslim solders).

Wiki? That's your source?

Here's what else wiki says:

The Library of Alexandria, generally thought to have been founded at the beginning of the third century BC, was conceived and opened during the reign of Ptolemy I Soter, or that of his son Ptolemy II of Egypt. It has been reasonably established that the Library or parts of the collection were destroyed on a number of occasions, but to this day the details of the destruction (or destructions) remain a lively source of controversy based on inconclusive evidence.
Library of Alexandria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, shall I say it? Do you believe without PROOF!! Where's your OSE!! :D

Strange that you always accept pro-religious wild claims without any retort, but demand OSE for a historic wellknown fact.

No, no. I've provided the evidence for my beliefs continually. You simply deny them.

As for me, I have evidence that Christians would not destroy any Greek masterpieces intentionally. Throughout the centuries, the Church Fathers used Greek philosophy either to substantiate Christian belief or as a point of comparison.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[De Maria]

To answer De Maria,

Ok

Yes. Go study anchient cultures.

No. I asked, "CAN YOU PROVE THAT?"

Yes. Writing in ancient times was reserved for the very intelligent and the rich.

And so, they made up "stories"? Why should we believe these "stories"?

In this case no although some of it might have been assumed like they probably assume the underwater volcanoes part although maybe not there might have been one close enough to the surface for them to see it.

Might have been? You expect us to believe your speculations as though they are facts?

Observation

Again, who observed the Oceanic hydrothermal vents and the earth suspended in space?

and complex mathmatical formulas.

That doesn't surprise me. Did it surprise you?

No but for the most part they didn't need them.

But you said they observed these things. Did they observe them with the naked eye?

Depends on what you mean by this, most people dream about ideas they have.

True. But I'm trying to find out how they knew the things which we have only recently confirmed with modern technology.

If you are saying they dreamed of these things which we now confirm with modern technology, then that seems a mystical or spiritual means of understanding the world? Is that how you mean that they knew about these things, spiritually?

Yes

Yes isn't it interesting what you can learn with time and observations.

I'm sure you're wrong there. The people who wrote the Bible said they were inspired by God to do so:

2 Peter 1 20 Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. 21 For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost.

The sea fareing ones. Any culture that relied on fish would know where to fish and would know that there boat moves in the currents and where those currents are.

And they observed the deep ocean currents and the hydro thermal vents?

Do you have source documents in which we may confirm these observations of the Greeks?

How about robotics?

They had robotics? How do you define "robotics"? I knew they had simple hydraulic machines, but I've never heard they had robotics.

The had many complex machines that did all sorts of things. The robotics technology of the ancient greeks wasn't matched till Leonardo da Vinci.

That depends on how you define "robotics". I don't believe Leonardo da Vinci had robotics either.

They also not only knew that the earth was round but they knew how big it was within a 1% margin of error. They knew the tilt of the earth's axis. How far away the sun and moon where. It is really amazing some of the things they knew. Without the aid of modern equipment.

All we need now is your proof. You've expounded what you believe admirably. Where are the source documents.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[Alty]

And so, they made up "stories"? Why should we believe these "stories"?

Why is it so hard to believe? You believe the "stories" in the bible, even though none of them can be proven.

Might have been? You expect us to believe your speculations as though they are facts?

That's what you expect with regards to the bible.

I'm sure you're wrong there. The people who wrote the Bible said they were inspired by God to do so:

Do you believe everything someone says is true? Obviously not because you are questioning Michaelb's findings.

All we need now is your proof. You've expounded what you believe admirably. Where are the source documents.

Ditto.