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NotLaLa · Jun 1, 2008, 11:07 AM

Hi all,

I repainted a room and wanted to replace the off-white outlets with white ones to match my white trim. No problem, I've replaced outlets before, I thought to myself...

So I returned from Lowe's with my new Cooper outlets, located and turned off the breaker, and replaced all the outlets in the room. Turned the breaker on and, while the outlets worked perfectly, they were no longer switched. (I never said that I replaced a *switched* outlet before... )

While I was replacing the outlets, I was very careful to mark which wires were on top and which were on bottom. Usually. There was one outlet where I didn't mark the neutrals and had to guess which went on the top and which on the bottom. I thought maybe I had reversed the wires and perhaps that was the problem. So I took out that outlet and (after failing to "press to release" the back wires properly, ended up cutting off all the wires and buying a new outlet) reversed the neutrals from their then-current positions. I flipped the breaker back on and, of course, no difference.

So I did a little research and found out about that pesky tab you have to break off on the hot side. So this morning, I went around to all the outlets and broke off all the tabs. I just flipped the breaker back on and the good news is that, with the switch in the off position, I have one live and dead socket on each outlet. The bad news is that it doesn't change when the switch is on.

Sorry for the long-winded message, but I'm hoping that somewhere in there is a clue to what I did wrong. If the neutrals were wired correctly at first and then I flipped them to reversed positions (i.e. what should be on top is on the bottom and vice versa), would that cause my dead socket? Is there some other obvious misstep that I made? Is there some way I can troubleshoot this mess, or should I just give up and call an electrician?

And, as a side note, any tips on getting those back wires out of the outlet without resorting to wire cutters? I couldn't find anything small enough to fit into the place where you stick in the "pusher" that was also strong enough to push with any meaningful force.

I've seen a lot of good advice to others when perusing the board for a clue, so I am hoping one of you experts can take pity on this damsel in distress. Thanks in advance!

Stratmando · Jun 1, 2008, 11:32 AM

Backwiring can give problems, I would suggest around the screw.
All whites should be together on white terminals, this is your neutral and not switched. And all tabs on that side to remain.
Your switched wire may be a different color that the constant hot. A wire may have broken at wirenut or came loose, removing switch may be necessary for testing and may help locate the bad/missing connection.

stanfortyman · Jun 1, 2008, 12:08 PM

Most likely what you did was break the tab on a receptacle that was not switched. This then discontinued the feed to the switch.

It would be impossible to say which one it is. You have to remove each one and look at how it is wired.

NotLaLa · Jun 1, 2008, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by NotLaLa

Hi all,

I repainted a room and wanted to replace the off-white outlets with white ones to match my white trim. No problem, I've replaced outlets before, I thought to myself...

So I returned from Lowe's with my new Cooper outlets, located and turned off the breaker, and replaced all the outlets in the room. Turned the breaker on and, while the outlets worked perfectly, they were no longer switched. (I never said that I replaced a *switched* outlet before...)

While I was replacing the outlets, I was very careful to mark which wires were on top and which were on bottom. Usually. There was one outlet where I didn't mark the neutrals and had to guess which went on the top and which on the bottom. I thought maybe I had reversed the wires and perhaps that was the problem. So I took out that outlet and (after failing to "press to release" the back wires properly, ended up cutting off all the wires and buying a new outlet) reversed the neutrals from their then-current positions. I flipped the breaker back on and, of course, no difference.

So I did a little research and found out about that pesky tab you have to break off on the hot side. So this morning, I went around to all the outlets and broke off all the tabs. I just flipped the breaker back on and the good news is that, with the switch in the off position, I have one live and dead socket on each outlet. The bad news is that it doesn't change when the switch is on.

Sorry for the long-winded message, but I'm hoping that somewhere in there is a clue to what I did wrong. If the neutrals were wired correctly at first and then I flipped them to reversed positions (i.e., what should be on top is on the bottom and vice versa), would that cause my dead socket? Is there some other obvious misstep that I made? Is there some way I can troubleshoot this mess, or should I just give up and call an electrician?

And, as a side note, any tips on getting those back wires out of the outlet without resorting to wire cutters? I couldn't find anything small enough to fit into the place where you stick in the "pusher" that was also strong enough to push with any meaningful force.

I've seen a lot of good advice to others when perusing the board for a clue, so I am hoping one of you experts can take pity on this damsel in distress. Thanks in advance!

Thanks for the quick responses...

I took a quick look at the outlets I removed from the room (the benefits of being a pack rat) and saw that, indeed, one of the outlets *didn't* have the tab broken off.

Stan, when you say "you have to remove each one and look at how it is wired," what do I need to look for to tell whether the outlet was intended to be switched or not?

Thanks for any help/advice...

-Laura

Stratmando · Jun 1, 2008, 05:21 PM

Swithed wire could be available in all boxes, any one that you want to switch, just break tab off, 1 goes to 1 half of recepticle(always hot), and 1 wire goes to other half of recepticle(switched by switch).
If you only have a black and white, then don't break tab, both will always be hot.

stanfortyman · Jun 1, 2008, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Stratmando

If you only have a black and white, then don't break tab, both will always be hot.

THIS should be the key. Having a box with only blacks and whites.
Maybe not though.

What was the wiring scheme? Was it "3-wire" NM cable, such as 12/3 or 14/3? This is quite common where the black is the constant hot and the red is the switched wire, and connected as needed/wanted for switched receptacles.

Mr Shove L · Jun 1, 2008, 06:01 PM

Hi,:) Did you remember? Black on brass screw, and white on silver?:)

hkstroud · Jun 1, 2008, 09:46 PM

Maybe this will help

NotLaLa · Jun 6, 2008, 04:15 AM

Thanks for all the answers (and sorry for the late reply -- I have limited computer time during the week).

Any advice on how to proceed with testing to determine where the problem is? I haven't been able to look further into the details of the wiring because, as a single mom, I'm pretty busy when it's light out. I hope to get to it this weekend...

Thanks again to all,
Laura

KISS · Jun 6, 2008, 06:39 AM

How many outletrs did you replace?

How many were switched before they got messed up?
The top of one, the bottom of one, both outlets on 5 duplex outlets?

NotLaLa · Jun 7, 2008, 11:09 AM

I replaced 4 outlets. I only found 3 of the old ones, and the tabs were broken off on two of them. I thought they were all switched, but apparently it was only two or three of them. It's in a room I rarely used (guest room), so I only used a few of the outlets.

The ones that were switched were all switched on top, always live on bottom.

-Laura

NotLaLa · Jun 14, 2008, 07:26 AM

Does anyone have any advice on how to test the outlets so I can find where the problem is?

Thanks,
Laura

Stratmando · Jun 14, 2008, 11:12 AM

The Neutrals all stay together, they connect to silver side, the Large slot, don't break tab on that side.
If a receptacle has a "switched half" that is the on that the tab needs to be removed, I think you had 1 or more that had a constant hot in and a constant hot out to continue on, breaking a tab on one of those will disrupt power.
Just need to wire the hots together wit 2 pigtails(6" piece of wire) to connect to each dark screw.
How many were switched before?
Back wiring can create problems, better to go around screws.
With power off you can twist receptacle side to side while pulling will undo backwired recepticles.