[mstkay76]

I have a 3 yr old Female Shih Tzu. She has not yet been spayed, however, she is scheduled for such having never been bred nor wanting to in the future. She is current on all vaccinations and all her tests are negative for heart worm, etc.

In recent months she has taken to losing a bit of weight. She weighs 9.75 lbs and although the vet said she is healthy, I tend to disagree with him because her ribs show and I can now feel EVERY disk in her spine not to mention her little hip bones are protruding. She still has decent muscle mass and she's not yet emaciated but she's well on her way if the weight loss continues.

Although she's a smaller/petite dog, she has never been so thin and I'm beginning to worry.

I've tried Puppy Chow, sprinkle on supplements, free feeding, cooked ground beef and cooked chicken with rice, gravies, and peanut butter. The peanut butter did help with her ribs not sticking out so much but still... she's too thin. While she does and will eat, she doesn't eat much. I've tried the psychological route of praising her for eating, etc. But she just doesn't feel the need to eat, I guess...

We live a rather sedate life as I am disabled. She gets to exercise for about 30 minutes per day in the back yard and she spends an additional 30 minutes or so playing indoors (running, prancing, etc.) She has plenty of energy and doesn't exhibit any lethargy.

On top of her losing weight, her coat seems a bit drier than normal. This makes me wonder if she's missing some sort of vital oils in her diet...

While I realize she is a smaller, more petite dog for the standard and that the Shih Tzu should not be overweight as it is very difficult on their small bodies, I also realize she is definitely too thin for her frame and could stand to gain about 0.5 to 1 pound.

Is it possible, due to our sedate lifestyle, that she is not expending enough energy in order to get hungry enough to want to eat? Or..? Any ideas or advice for psychological practices and exercises, training, foods, etc. that will get a pound on her would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance for you help.

Misty

[bushg]

I read somewhere that when a dog is not altered it has a higher metabolism... maybe that is why she is not gaining enough weight. Get her spayed and see how she does.. If you like I can dig up the article... It was from a pretty respectable vet magazine.
As long as she has had her health checkup and the vet thinks she is OK I would not be so worried. You also say she has plenty of energy and plays that is a good sign as well.
Also I would be cautious about the peanut butter, gravy, and the ground beef. I would worry about it being to rich /greasy for her body. I feed certain types of human food but the dry food is important as well for their teeth and there is also a lot of vitamins and minerals in the food. I will not go into brands, everyone must do their own research as to what they consider good enough for their dog. Also on the human food subject... there are certain foods that can be deadly if fed.

[labman]

It does sound like your dog is truly under weight. It is a rare case where a healthy dog fails to eat what it needs. It is even likely some dogs are are better off too thin, than eating a rich diet. Unless you find something at https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dogs/i...tml#post254171
The best thing would be to seek a second opinion. Nearly all cases of dogs not eating are from over feeding or a physical problem.

[mstkay76]

Thank you, bushg.

I think you're onto something with her metabolism and not being spayed. I will continue with the 'puppy' chow for now and see what happens after she is spayed.

Even though she's in good health according to the doc, I so worry that I can feel every little bone in her body. Surely that can't be healthy?

Just for the record: I've not put a stop to feeding her the crunchy food even when I tried the beef/chicken and rice. I just mixed it in with her regular food just like the other foods I used in order to entice her to eat more. Also, I was very careful with peanut butter because I was concerned the sugar content could mess with her blood sugar levels causing possible hypo glycemia or diabetes, etc.

Her regular 'crunchy' food is high in protein and shows meat sources as the first 2 ingredients. I researched that this was better than anything showing 'corn' or other starches as the first 4-5 ingredients. Luckily, I've always had her on the same food brand and just recently switched over to 'puppy' chow because of the weight loss.

The vet says that I'm feeding her an "adequate diet" and a "good food"... so... I just wonder if there's something more I could be doing.

I wonder if mixing canned food with kibble/'crunchy' food would be a good idea... I've not tried that yet.

Thanks again, bushg!

[bushg]

Hopefully you got your vets input on the feeding of the puppy chow. I know some of the dog foods like Blue Buffalo is the same type of food for the puppys and adult dogs.
You also need to have a trusting relationship with your vet, if not maybe you need to find a new one.

[mstkay76]

labman, thank you so much for the info.

All of her tests came back negative so I have to assume she's healthy like the vet said. Beyond that the only thing I have to go on that something is wrong is her weight or lack thereof.

When I say she weighs 9.75 lbs, that was post peanut butter and all other attempts I mentioned!! I had to work to get her to that weight. Last year she weighed 10.5 lbs and she was in GREAT condition and looked good as well! There were no bones protruding or anything like that nor was her coat so dry. I've not changed her kibble or anything so... I'm at a loss.

I DID move. She has been living in a new house for the past 12 months but the weightloss didn't start until about 3 months ago. So I'm inclined to ignore that as a possibility.

One thing I did not take into account is the possibility of depression. Her lifelong friend grew very ill (genetic kidney problem.) Regretfully and sadly, I had to put him down as nothing further could be done and the suffering was immense for all of us. I never put the two together that this might be affecting her. That was about 30-60 days before her weightloss caught my attention. Do you think this might have something to do with it? If so, how do I handle it in this case?

Thanks soooooo much!!

[mstkay76]

Hopefully you got your vets input on the feeding of the puppy chow. I know some of the dog foods like Blue Buffalo is the same type of food for the puppys and adult dogs.
You also need to have a trusting relationship with your vet, if not maybe you need to find a new one.

The vet is the one who recommended I switch over to the 'puppy' formula. With the puppy formula and the other attempts I made she did weigh in at 9.75 lbs and the vet was satisfied with that. I'm still not satisfied as I don't think I should be able to see her rib cage, hip bones and her spine. Feel them when petting? Sure. But obviously visible? No.

I have had several dogs in my lifetime and grew up on a farm and have NEVER run into a case like this. Normally I'm having to put them on a weight control formula! Lol So, this is new to me and I'm at a loss.

As for my relationship with my vet... he's FANTASTIC! Or at least he has been the past 13 yrs I've gone to him. This is the first time he and I disagreed on something. So... I'm puzzled to say the least.

ALL advice and suggestions are very much appreciated!

[bushg]

Yes, mstky I understand... before I came on here I did not fully understand what a healthy physical appearance was for a dog... Labman has a site that shows how much the ribs should be seen.. I saw another site where they show too thin versus too fat. So now I have a much better understanding of how much is too much and when there isn't enough.

[labman]

The loss of the other dog could be a big factor. Still, I think it would be a mistake to assume it is the problem, and fail to get a second opinion on the physical health.

If it is psychological, try to enrich the dog's life as much as you can. Just doing more of what you can do, brushing, playing fetch, etc. may help. Arrange play dates with other dogs if she enjoys it. Some dogs do, and some don't. A couple of 6 year old males that are frequent visitors to our home are both here this weekend. The Lab is having a great time playing with my 4 month old Xanthe. The little terrier mix wants nothing to do with her. So if your dog enjoys being with other dogs, give her as much of a chance as you can.

When in doubt, suggest better leadership. Who knows, it might help. The key to most behavior problems is approaching things using the dog's natural instincts. Dogs see all the people and dogs in the household as a pack with each having their own rank in the pack and a top dog. Life is much easier if the 2 legged pack members outrank the 4 legged ones. You can learn to play the role of top dog by reading some books or going to a good obedience class. A good obedience class or book is about you being top dog, not about rewarding standard commands with a treat. Start at Raising Your Dog with the Monks of New Skete For more on being top dog, see Establishing and Keeping Alpha Position, Letting your dog know you are the boss

What is the extent of your disability? It is your business, you don't need to say. Time has robbed me of some of the details, but I remember a boy in a wheel chair at both a regional show and the state fair dog obedience competition. The leaders and other members of his club had a strong commitment to making it work. I am involved in accommodation of those with mobility impairments. Ways can and must be found to make things work.

I have sort of rambled around on this. Frankly, true not eating for no good cause cases are so rare, none of my background provides a clear answer. Many knowledgeable people deny it even happens. I have never seen it with any of my dogs. I don't remember any authoritative answers. We kept our friends' newly pregnant, non eating Shepherd for a weekend last summer. When she wouldn't eat her puppy chow wet down with chicken broth, I managed to get her to eat about a cup of dry adult chow. Our friends were pleased I managed that. They had access to some top vets that weekend and didn't seem to have any miracle solution.

If RubyPitbull checks in, try anything she suggests. She has more experience with emotionally out of sorts dogs than the rest of us.

[mstkay76]

Thank yous to both of you, bushg and labman!

I was able to get in touch with a local vet online who will see her on Thursday for a 2nd opinion.

Should RubyPitbull happen upon my question, I will take all her advice, labman. Thank you for telling me about her.

I have a bad feeling there are about 3 things going on here - 2 of which I caused. I think she may have gone into depression upon the loss of her friend and when she began losing weight I made my first mistake. Rather than making sure she exercised properly so she'd be hungry enough to eat, I babied her and didn't MAKE her walk, run or otherwise exercise. Then rather than starting on the exercise (to blow off energy and build an appetite) I started trying to bribe her little by little with this or that - as I mentioned above. She may just be playing the spoiled, pack leader and sadly, I put her in that position feeling bad for her loss (and mine as well.)

I may have further complicated it by bringing a puppy into the mix 4 months after the loss thinking that would help us stop moping about. It took her 2 weeks before she'd acknowledge him but now she'll play with him when he's not annoying her entirely - when it's her idea and not his.

I wonder if RubyPitbull would agree with that assessment? I further wonder what it is I need to do to get it all in check so she doesn't suffer further from my own mistakes.

As for my disability, labman... I was injured playing volleyball - broke my ankle, broke my knee and dislocated my hip all in the same leg. I further severed all the nerves on the front and sides of the leg and foot which caused a neurological problem which is physically debilitating. It took about 2 yrs to learn to walk again although they said I'd most likely never have that luxury again. I DO walk but it's VERY limited due to edema, pain, balance, etc. I use a cane or crutches to aid me. I do NOT and will NOT own a wheelchair. I refuse to succumb to that just yet - I'm too young.

Basically, I can play fetch but my doggy won't - she never did like fetch. Go figure! But she does enjoy being brushed which we do almost every day - definitely every other day. She has loads of squeaky toys to choose from. She's almost always carrying one around in her mouth. There are dogs in all the yards surrounding mine and she has a blast when she goes out for 30 minutes each day to play with them - this doesn't include the 3-4 other 5-10 minute outings per day for her 'business'. She naps after EVERY outing! She's now playing tug of war and chase with the new puppy (male shih tzu) but only when the mood strikes her - she's a finicky female, what can I say? Hehe I take her with me whenever possible so she's not left at home to sulk but then I've always done that. She's very social but she prefers humans over other k-9's despite the backyard fun. In the backyard she's mostly just bossing them around and running about rather than chasing them up and down the fence line and playing.

I hope that info helps...

Thanks again for all of your advice and assistance and especially for caring enough about animals to want to help with other people's animal's issues.

Safe and Happy Holidays to all!

[labman]

The leadership may or may not be too important to the eating problem. The more important thing is the quality time you spend with her. It doesn't require much walking to drill a dog in sit, down, and stay working out of a book. Fixing and maintaining eye contact is a strong leadership tool that requires no walking or use of the arms and hands. I have a better appreciation for that for having raised a couple of puppies for a school that trains dogs for other than the visually impaired. If you have trouble getting her to make eye contact, let me know, and I will share the technique from my instruction manual.

It will be good to hear the report form the second vet.

[JudiWV]

Please have her thyroid checked. We experienced very similar problems with our rescued Shih Tzu 2 years ago. He is now 6 years old. Our vet is from "the old school" and recoognized the likely problem upon visual examination. He started Smokey on a very low dose of thyroid med for 4 weeks. The transformation was phenomenal after 2 weeks. Even the appearance of his coat (had been coarse, especially down the center of the back) changed dramatically. His facial expression "lifted". It had appeared to droop before. When the vet saw the improvement, he then did the bloodwork to determine the proper dosage for him. There has been no problem since. Hope you will give this a shot. It's well worth a try in my opinion.