[NeedKarma]

you can't say that "you'll come back as something or someone of a higher station than you are now" you can't tell or promise someone that because you dont know that is what will definately happen, it's kind of giving people false hope.

I think the post may have been tongue-in-cheek. ;)

[KBC]

Again I state:

It is a concept,lack of proof makes it just that,what one believes isn't what all believe, no one can say,with undeniable evidence,that there is a factual entity, they can, however, extend their compassion and what they have been taught by their religion to the masses( when they are so driven)

My earlier post stated,

How many atheists have come knocking on your door,asking to save you from your overt feelings of belief?

Or met you at the airport, passing out flowers in an act of? Servitude? To their religion?

Atheists(that I know) do not wish to, and are not in the habit of, judging others of their choices of religion,or others passion in their delivery of their concept of 'The Word' as dictated by their respective preachings.

They do not,however,want to be dictated to by those who have the 'Freedom of religion' and try to force their ideology on others.

If we believe, we believe, if not, live and let live.

Ken

[geniegee2003]

This is getting so patheitc. Some people believe, some people dont believe. Neither person is wrong and neither is right. Let's just leave it at that

[KBC]

This is getting so patheitc. Some people believe, some people dont believe. Neither person is wrong and neither is right. Let's just leave it at that

That is what debate is about,discussion between people, without 'pulling the trigger'

[silentrascal]

As a believer in The Creator of the worlds, I have always wondered how an atheist comes to the conclusion that God is non existent ?
Please do not think that I am going to argue your points,just curious!!!:confused:

Thanks in advance.

It is a very strange point of view, atheism, considering there's no logic behind it. Nobody would say "there's no Creator" if they happened to come upon a fully-stocked, temperature controlled home during a walk through the woods... so why would someone say "there's no Creator" when you take a look at this planet, or look closer at the various cycles of the planet, or even the various systems of the human body. How can someone logically say that there was no intelligent creator or designer behind these things? It's a point of view that people ARE entitled to have, but it really doesn't appear to be any kind of logical rationale behind it.

[NeedKarma]

Logic and religion do not go hand in hand, and they never will. If you choose to not get educated in evolution and physics and chemistry then that is your choice of course. Not understanding something does not logically mean that there is a god.

[KBC]

It is a very strange point of view, athiesm, considering there's no logic behind it. Nobody would say "there's no Creator" if they happened to come upon a fully-stocked, temperature controlled home during a walk through the woods.....so why would someone say "there's no Creator" when you take a look at this planet, or look closer at the various cycles of the planet, or even the various systems of the human body. How can someone logically say that there was no intelligent creator or designer behind these things? It's a point of view that people ARE entitled to have, but it really doesn't appear to be any kind of logical rationale behind it.

On the contrary,I see it as;

Science has proven the changes in human physiology,adapting to environmental needs,from eating fruits and nuts, to red meat.

Science shows,humans adaptation to survival in the arctic as well as the tropics,and succeeding in both places.

Are these an act of a higher power?A believer will think so,an atheist will say no its just evolution.

Look at the Milky way Galaxy and say this is a creation of a supreme being,and the atheist says,its natural evolution,science can show this.But religion asks to accept on words or preachings that this is creationism,Science is factual,religion is concept, Where is the logical thinking you are lost on? Facts are facts, Concepts are interpretation.

[silentrascal]

On the contrary,I see it as;

Science has proven the changes in human physiology,adapting to environmental needs,from eating fruits and nuts, to red meat.

Science shows,humans adaptation to survival in the arctic as well as the tropics,and succeeding in both places.

Are these an act of a higher power?A believer will think so,an atheist will say no its just evolution.

Look at the Milky way Galaxy and say this is a creation of a supreme being,and the atheist says,its natural evolution,science can show this.But religion asks to accept on words or preachings that this is creationism,Science is factual,religion is concept, Where is the logical thinking you are lost on? Facts are facts, Concepts are interpretation.

Sure, science can back up the facts of creation, but it cannot back up guesses as to everything coming about by chance, by the ridiculous theory of evolution, or by some big bang. Fact is that all of these things discussed CANNOT come about by mere chance.

[Capuchin]

Sure, science can back up the facts of creation, but it cannot back up guesses as to everything coming about by chance, by the ridiculous theory of evolution, or by some big bang. Fact is that all of these things discussed CANNOT come about by mere chance.

Have you tried to create life by mere chance over several billion years? I can tell you that nobody ever has, and so what you state as "fact" is in fact nothing of the sort. It's your own assertion, an assertion that I suggest is logically inept.

[silentrascal]

Have you tried to create life by mere chance over several billion years? I can tell you that nobody ever has, and so what you state as "fact" is in fact nothing of the sort. It's your own assertion, an assertion that I suggest is logically inept.

I have common sense and intelligence, and those things along say that you can have something come out of nothing all by itself. Pure impossibility. Logically inept would be to claim that life, this planet, and the universe came out of some chance combination of chemicals or "ooze" over billions of years and simply discounting that an intelligent creator made all things because the idea is too easy for arrogant scientific "experts" to accept.

[ordinaryguy]

It annoys me when people think they have a religion that only applies to them.

Have you thought about why it annoys you? Could it be because you want to apply your conclusion that you are "a fortuitous arrangement of salty water" to everybody else as well? Doesn't it give you pause to find yourself in bed with mountain man on this one?

If there is one true religion, then it will apply to all of us, and if there is no true religion, then the fact that we are nothing more than a fortuitous arrangement of salty water applies to all of us.

How can you (and mountain man) be so very sure that these are the only two possibilities? Of course, the logical mind loves unambiguous distinctions and mutually exclusive alternatives, but reality is often messier than that. I see a vast continuum between these two extremes.

[Capuchin]

I have common sense and intelligence, and those things along say that you can have something come out of nothing all by itself. Pure impossibility. Logically inept would be to claim that life, this planet, and the universe came out of some chance combination of chemicals or "ooze" over billions of years and simply discounting that an intelligent creator made all things because the idea is too easy for arrogant scientific "experts" to accept.

Where do the theories of the big bang, or evolution, or abiogenesis state that something comes out of nothing?

[Miss Sparkle]

I think we should all respect eachother's beliefs, after all that's what makes us a cultural world. If everyone believed the same thing there would be no diversity and life would be so very boring :(

[Capuchin]

Have you thought about why it annoys you? Could it be because you want to apply your conclusion that you are "a fortuitous arrangement of salty water" to everybody else as well? Doesn't it give you pause to find yourself in bed with mountain man on this one?

How can you (and mountain man) be so very sure that these are the only two possibilities? Of course, the logical mind loves unambiguous distinctions and mutually exclusive alternatives, but reality is often messier than that. I see a vast continuum between these two extremes.

I should have stated the opposite I suppose. It seems a bit silly to me for someone to say "If i believe in reincarnation, I will be reincarnated, and if I believe in a final death, then I will have a final death". Both Christianity (within it's denominations, at least) and Atheism are fairly clear about what happens after death, and are very clear that it will happen to everyone.

I don't wish to apply the "salty bag of water" to everyone, since, if it's true, it applies regardless or not of whether I want it to. People can believe as they wish but I don't believe that what they believe will change squat.

I haven't heard of a religion that states that whatever you think will happen after death will in fact happen exactly the way you believe. Although that might be a very nice religion to be a part of.

I wasn't sure about the 2 possibilities at all. I am only sure about one of them.

[Miss Sparkle]

Nobody knows the trust about what happens to us after death, the only way we will ever know for sure is when we die. It's abit pesimistic, but it is true. Maybe there's life after death or maybe not. I don't think we should dwell on the question too much, one day we will find out so why not enjoy your life now and worry later

[silentrascal]

Where do the theories of the big bang, or evolution, or abiogenesis state that something comes out of nothing?

Basically "big bang" says that there was a big explosion from gases and whatever... now how did those gases or materials come about? Were they simply always there? It offers no answers for that, just the blind conjecture that these things were there, they came together, and BANG. Evolution, depending on which person you're discussing it with, says that everyone came together after billions of years of being in some primordial soup... yet it doesn't explain where those elements came from, again assuming they were just always there. People put a lot of stock into these ridiculous theories and push and push and push them as fact simply because scientists word these things in a way so as to make them sound intelligent and plausible.

[silentrascal]

Nobody knows the trust about what happens to us after death, the only way we will ever know for sure is when we die. It's abit pesimistic, but it is true. Maybe theres life after death or maybe not. I dont think we should dwell on the question too much, one day we will find out so why not enjoy your life now and worry later

What we KNOW about death is that when someone dies, they have zero functions body wise... no brain activity, no working respiratory or circulatory systems, and eventually the body crumbles back into dust (of which the human body possesses many of the same elements). From what we can see, when a person or animal dies, that's it. There's only the speculation that anything additionally happens that people cling to.

[excon]

Hello silent:

The big bang came from a singularity, not "gasses and whatever". The big bang and evolution have nothing to do with each other.

Criticism is fine, but base it on facts. Of course, that would involve study and you're probably not going to do that. Especially if you think it's ridiculous.

excon

[Capuchin]

Basically "big bang" says that there was a big explosion from gases and whatever.......now how did those gases or materials come about? Were they simply always there? It offers no answers for that, just the blind conjecture that these things were there, they came together, and BANG. Evolution, depending on which person you're discussing it with, says that everyone came together after billions of years of being in some primordial soup......yet it doesn't explain where those elements came from, again assuming they were just always there. People put a lot of stock into these ridiculous theories and push and push and push them as fact simply because scientists word these things in a way so as to make them sound intelligent and plausible.

No, it doesn't, please go and study big bang theory, stellar formation theory, planetary formation theory, and evolutionary theory. Then we can have an intelligent discussion.

[silentrascal]

No, it doesn't, please go and study big bang theory, stellar formation theory, planetary formation theory, and evolutionary theory. Then we can have an intelligent discussion.

Yes it does. Go study it yourself... and forget the discussion.