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    slmense's Avatar
    slmense Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Dec 3, 2005, 11:58 AM
    shower pan leaking
    Hi,

    Our shower pan has failed for the second time. We thought the detailed construction this second time would prevent a repeat of the failure. It has not:

    The Shower was built over 2x4 studs, cement slab, concrete backboard (over 1 foot tall) nailed to studs. A rubberized sheet (unknown type) was placed between shower basin and backboard prior to concrete being poured. Pan was reinforced with wire. Thickness of concrete basin is unknown. Do not recall if floor was presloped.

    Why would this pan fail again and is there any recourse but replacement?

    Additional detail, termites are again infesting our home?

    Sherry Menser
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
    Eternal Plumber
     
    #2

    Dec 4, 2005, 08:19 AM
    This Question Should Be On The Plumbing Page
    Quote Originally Posted by slmense
    Hi,

    Our shower pan has failed for the second time. We thought the detailed construction this second time would prevent a repeat of the failure. It has not:

    The Shower was built over 2x4 studs, cement slab, concrete backboard (over 1 foot tall) nailed to studs. A rubberized sheet (unknown type) was placed between shower basin and backboard prior to concrete being poured. Pan was reinforced with wire. Thickness of concrete basin is unknown. Do not recall if floor was presloped.

    Why would this pan fail again and is there any recourse but replacement?

    Additional detail, termites are again infesting our home?

    Sherry Menser
    Hi Sherry,

    This question belongs on the plumbing page. I almost missed it over here.
    The shower pan material that you have is most likely Composeal, a blue vinyl shower pan liner that comes in 30 or 40 mil thicknesses.
    If panned out properly with folded seamless corners and run up the shower wall at least 8 inches it won't leak.
    Are you quite sure it's the pan that's leaking and not the tile grout or the drain?
    To check for a shower pan leak we first remover the strainer and jam the drain with wet rags to make a watertight seal. The we fill the shower base witg a few inches with water, mark the water level line and let it set overnight. If there's moisture in the morning then the leak's in the pan itself, but if it's dry the leak is one of two other places. The tile grout where the shower stream hits, ( this is where I find most of my shower leaks) or the drain ,trap and drain line.
    I'm confused. Why was it necessary to reinforce the pan with wire since it sets on a cement slab? What am I missing here? What so unusual about your installation that you would have to "reinforce" a shower pan with wire and how do you know it wasn't this wire that punctured the Composeal?
    I hold it highly suspicious that if the pan was installed correctly by a licensed plumber that it would fail twice. It WAS a plumber that installed it wasn't it?
    The floow the shower pan sets on is not sloped the tile man does that when he muds the floor in. If you have morequestions please post them on they plumbing page as I don't check this section very often. Regards, Tom
    slmense's Avatar
    slmense Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Dec 15, 2005, 04:59 PM
    Checked the Pan
    The test that you explained we needed was done and the pan failed to pass.

    There would seem to be a structure problem or design problem. We do not want to repeat this problem that is why we went to extreme detail last time. Do you have any suggestions. This is beach property would that affect the shower and cause failures in the pan.

    I appreicate your help.

    Sherry Menser
    James W. Acker's Avatar
    James W. Acker Posts: 17, Reputation: 3
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    #4

    Dec 15, 2005, 09:34 PM
    Double Seepage Shower Drain
    I am not sure who did your work for you when your pan was replaced, if it was an experenced plumber he would have known to use an double seepage shower drain. If you did the work yourself it is possible that you did not use the proper drain. The double seepage drain is designed in three pieces. The bottom piece fits in the concrete floor and sets level with the finished floor of the house. The second part goes on after you have put down the vynal shower pan. It is tightened in different ways depending on the brand you use. Tightening The second piece down to the first piece with the vynal in between makes a seal at that connecion. You then cut a hole in the center of the shower drain for the water to drain out. The third piece is a threaded piece that is screwed into the second piece and it is adjustable to get the slope needed to drain the shower. If the drain is installed this way and you know that it is the pan leaking, then the pan must have been damaged on instalation.
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
    Eternal Plumber
     
    #5

    Dec 18, 2005, 01:34 PM
    WOW! Dynamite explanation James,

    In my area we call them "flange type shower drains".
    Sherry, be aware that when we pan out for a shower that we make our folds so that all corners are seemless and that the pan extends 8" up the wall. Because you failed to mention what your drainage is I included both PVC and cast Iron flanges so you'll know weather they were installed. Regards Tom
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    slmense's Avatar
    slmense Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
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    #6

    Dec 18, 2005, 07:57 PM
    pan used was pvc
    We remember the way the unit looked and it was like the PVC drain, I want to add that this pan is ten years old and has just started to leak a small amount of water. It seems like there is a problem with the design and we are thinking of going to a fiberglass one-unit shower. What precautions can we take to get the most for our money.

    The last process cost $2000.00 dollars, yet our fiberglass bathtub/shower in the other bathroom is working fine and has given us a great value. We spent less for that unit.

    Sherry
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
    Eternal Plumber
     
    #7

    Dec 21, 2005, 06:25 AM
    Custom built tiled shower stalls always cost more then manufactured ones.
    The one thing that you must look out for in a manufactured enclosure is the shower floor. If it gives, even a little bit, it should be bedded with mortar or cement under the floor to make it ridgid. If it's not braced then over time the seal around the drain will rupture and start leaking. One more problem with changing over from a custom built to a manufactured one is the drain.
    The trap might have to be reconfigured to line up with the new drain.
    Good luck, Tom
    NORAM's Avatar
    NORAM Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Feb 8, 2011, 09:34 AM
    Another good way to reinforce the floor under the shower stall is to use insulation foam. Spray it in and wait until the expansion is totally complete. Cut of the expanded portion and Viola! No more movement

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