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tableclocks · Jan 23, 2018, 07:19 PM

My wife, 60, was asked to be the Sunday school superintendent, they don't have one now in this 4 yr old church, they are some what unorganized, yes ,she can do a very good job, there is some slack from at least one male, maybe more that don't speak up, independent baptist church, sooooooo, can she be or not according to the bible? or maybe she can be named something else? Thanks
I know what the bile says about women teaching, preaching, etc, does the bible support her in this position at all? Tks, richard

smoothy · Jan 23, 2018, 07:21 PM

Some churches really don't follow what the bible teaches at all... others are really strict about it.

ma0641 · Jan 26, 2018, 08:03 PM

You can pick a lot of things from a Bible to support your position. Mine is, I want my son stoned to death because he is a lazy drunkard. Not really but what does the Bible say? Deuteronomy 18:18-21. Read it! So, what position do you take? My city council frowned on that practice --BUT THE BIBLE SAYS IT!!

Wondergirl · Jan 26, 2018, 10:17 PM

The "women are to be silent" verse was Paul's warning to a SPECIFIC congregation where some (not all) women were very chatty and noisy and disorganized. So, no, there's no biblical reason why she can't be superintendent. Independent Baptist is flexible and not as literal as some denominations, from what I know of it.

P.S. I'm a Lutheran pastor's kid who has studied and taught the Bible to children and adults for years.

classyT · Feb 19, 2018, 08:42 AM

We must rightly divide the word of truth, which is why most people do not understand the bible. I agree with WG, Paul was correcting a specific assembly. If it is true that woman cannot teach or preach the Word of the Lord then explain why the Lord specifically told Mary ( after he rose from the dead) to go tell his disciples and Peter he is alive. That is a pretty HUGE announcement and he left it to a mere woman. Also, check out the woman at the well. He revealed to HER who he was. He didn't do that to just anyone. Then she ran and told everyone that would listen to come and listen to Him... she was preaching. It is so sad, the silly things the church get all concerned with. Yes the bible DOES support her position.

Mao641- sigh. That was a definitely a Jewish law in the OT. I have no clue how often it was followed. Having said that, Jesus Christ fulfilled the law. When you have made your last car payment you don't keep paying it. Your debt was paid. The Lord Jesus paid our debt and the law was nailed to the cross. We are now set free from the law. Which by the way, was ONLY given to man in the first place to show him he CAN NOT DO IT. Mankind in general thinks he is pretty good. Well, God set a standard to show him, he isn't good enough for a Holy God. If you break just 1 law you are guilty of breaking all of them. That is God's standard. He knew when he gave it man couldn't keep it. So in LOVE, he sent his Son to keep it and he fulfilled it. It is now null and void. Scandalous, I know. Those who call upon the name of the Lord Jesus are not under the law but under grace. Anyone that is truly under grace will not continue to live in sin. Grace is higher than the law. The bible is very clear, it says sin will NOT have dominion over you if you are under grace. Rightly dividing the word of God... it really makes a huge difference if one wants to understand the bible.

Wondergirl · Feb 19, 2018, 09:39 AM

rightly divide

That old-fashioned term "rightly divide" is so confusing. To me and many, many others, "divide" is a negative word: a marriage divided, children divided from parents, eggs divided means the yolk is separated from the white. A better term that is easily understood is "correctly teach."

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/e...Timothy%202:15

ma0641 · Feb 19, 2018, 09:00 PM

Sigh, so, "We are now set free from the law". Everything in the OT is wrong, or not acceptable today? "

How about the 10 commandments? All I was referring to is some of the questions/ oddities/absurdities of the OT.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

OR

²²And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man". Last time I checked, I had all mine. But maybe evolution took care of that.

Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is

blamelessand upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason." But Paul said "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of GOD".

If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; but if it happens after sunrise, the defender is guilty of bloodshed.

I personally think it a sin if any church edicts that a woman CAN'T preach, or be priests or ministers.

classyT · Feb 21, 2018, 02:55 PM

WG

Rightly divide... means to know the difference between law and grace. What is written to the Jewish people under the law, what is written for the church today. The bible is written for ALL of us but not directly TO all of us. Therefore, divide it appropriately. I have no issues with "rightly teach" but you can't do it if you do not understand Law and grace.

classyT · Feb 21, 2018, 03:01 PM

Ma0641-

The entire bible is for us today. I didn't say it was wrong. I said the LAW was fulfilled by Jesus. That's a fact. I didn't understand the other stuff. Not sure what your point was. Sorry.

Fr_Chuck · Feb 21, 2018, 05:47 PM

There is no such thing as "Sunday school" or school leaders in the bible. This is a man made function. As such this is not a pastor role, it is not a Bishop Role, it is not a prophet role.

It is not even a teaching role. So there is no reason a women can not do it

dwashbur · Feb 22, 2018, 08:39 AM

"Rightly divide... means to know the difference between law and grace."

Where do you find that in the passage in question?

classyT · Feb 23, 2018, 01:19 PM

Because as WG pointed out... it means to correctly teach. How in the world can you "correctly teach" if you don't know the difference? Mixing law with grace does not work. Jesus himself stated you cannot put new wine into old wine skins, it will burst and you will lose them both. When reading the bible, one must know who it is written directly to and what is the context. It is written for us ALL... but it isn't written to us all. Divide it or correctly teach it but understand what is your portion today as a believer.

Wondergirl · Feb 23, 2018, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by dwashbur

"Rightly divide... means to know the difference between law and grace."

I think I'm channeling classyT by saying, in the OT and under the Law, women were property of their husbands, stayed at home, did the cooking and cleaning, and tended to the children. In the NT, under the Gospel, Galatians 3:28 (NIV) says "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

So if we "correctly teach," it sounds like grace has released women from a narrow role as homemaker to an unlimited role, allowing women to be the best of whatever they can be to the glory of God -- and that includes being a Sunday school superintendent.

dwashbur · Feb 24, 2018, 08:03 AM

Amusing how neither of you answered my actual question. I agree with all the assessments, but that's not the question I asked.

jlisenbe · Jun 14, 2018, 01:02 PM

I realize I am a few months late in this. The passage is 2 Timothy 2:15. "Rightly divide" does not mean to know the difference between law and grace. The Greek word used (orthotomounta) means to make a straight cut, and so has the understanding of exercising care in being accurate and correct in your teaching of the Word so that you will not need to be ashamed in the presence of God at what you have taught.

So far as Paul's instruction on women teaching or having authority over men is concerned, I think it is hard to say it is only addressed to one church. He makes it clear that it was his general instruction to the churches (I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man), and he also gives his rational for having that position, saying that when Eve sinned, she did so because she had been deceived by the enemy. A susceptibility to deception is not a desirable trait for a teacher or a leader, so Paul felt it was unwise for women to be in those positions.

I realize that is not a wildly popular position in our present culture, but considering how sick that culture is, it does not bother me at all. In fact, I am more concerned when we Christians are admired and applauded in this present age than when we are criticized.

Wondergirl · Jun 14, 2018, 01:50 PM

when Eve sinned, she did so because she had been deceived by the enemy.

It took the cunning of the devil himself to make the woman sin, but it took only a woman to make the man sin.

jlisenbe · Jun 15, 2018, 06:24 AM

The woman did not make the man sin. He chose to do so. That is Paul's point. The man was not deceived. People can have differing views of this teaching, but to say that Paul was speaking to a specific congregation is simply incorrect. The letter was written to Timothy, not to a specific church. It is certainly not a denigration of the role of women in the gospel. The church would be in far worse shape than it is currently in were it not for women. Women are having to carry the burden of family now far more than men are willing to do. We should certainly celebrate women, but yet still stay true to scripture. It would seem that a reasonable interpretation of God's word is that women should not be the primary pastor or teacher in a church. Can women have roles of administration? I would think so, but not of a primary teacher or pastor.

12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

Wondergirl · Jun 15, 2018, 08:21 AM

The woman did not make the man sin. He chose to do so.

The serpent was crafty and the woman ate the forbidden fruit. All the woman had to do was hand it to the man and he ate. Gen. 3:6 -- "She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it." Not much resistance there....

jlisenbe · Jun 15, 2018, 08:30 AM

I'm not really sure what your point is. Paul's point was that the woman was deceived and deception is not a trait you want in a teacher, so he did not allow women to "take the point" in teaching or in leading men. If we believe, as I do, that this is not just Paul's words but God's, then we have to take that seriously. Again, that is not a knock on women. I don't think a woman has to be a lead pastor in order to be taken seriously in the church. The enormous significance of women in the gospel should be acknowledged and appreciated.

Wondergirl · Jun 15, 2018, 08:51 AM

As I said earlier, it took Satan himself to come up with reasons why the woman should eat the fruit. All she did in turn was hand the fruit to the man while probably batting her eyelashes. And we know that many male church leaders have succumbed to various temptations since those days in the Garden. Thankfully, (less susceptible?) women are finally gaining ground as church leaders.