[Firebutie76]

Saturday -- A 23.5 oz can of 4 Loko 12.5% abv between 9 and 10:30 am and very little breakfast. Two 12 oz diet sodas from 10:30 am to 1:00 pm. Little food from 1:00 pm to 5:00 pm. Walked 1 mile from 5 to 5:30 pm. Another 23.5 oz can of 4 Loko from 6 to 8:00 pm. Friend's party from 8:00 pm till 1:00 am and drank 1 liter of wine (13% abv) and 6-8 shots (80 proof) mixed with ginger ale and fruit punch and ate chips and chicken wing dip. 2:00 am went to bed.

Sunday -- Finished wine left from Saturday night (about 1/2 liter) between 8 and 9:00 am. Had 6-8 swigs of Jim Beam Red Stag Honey 80 proof (about 3-4 shots) followed by about 20 oz of diet soda between 9:30 and 10:30 am. Not much food for breakfast. Had bread and dill flavored dip, 20 oz diet soda, and 2 bowls of chicken wing soup from 1:30 to 5:00 pm. Drank about 3 glasses of wine between 3 and 5:00 pm. Had 2 grilled snapper hot dogs from 6 to 6:30 pm. Had two 12-oz 3.2% wine coolers between 8 and 10:30 pm and went to bed.

Monday -- No alcohol at all today. Two pieces of breakfast pizza and 16 oz diet soda 8 to 9:30 am, white meat chicken spiedie sandwich with the works on a small hoagie roll from 2 to 3:00 pm and 12 oz diet soda, and 1 grilled snapper hot dog from 6 to 6:30 pm with 12 oz diet soda.


Tuesday -- No alcohol at all today. Six inch egg white and ham sub from Subway from 9:30 to 11:00 am and 21 oz diet soda, and 2 large slices of cheese pizza (from a 16" pie) and 16 oz diet soda from 2 to 3:30 pm.

ETG test was at 8:00 pm on Tuesday night. I am a 36 yo female, approx. 210 pounds, and average metabolism. When I provided sample, it looked unually pale (almost clear). I did not try in any way to dilute the sample.

[Firebutie76]

I should also mention that the cutoff is 100 ng.

Also, on Monday and Tuesday, I urinated very frequently throughout the day (6-8 times per day).

My height is 5 ft. 6 in. weight is 210 lbs. and I am 36 yo female.

Thanks!

[Firebutie76]

I forgot to mention that I had the Roux and Y gastric bypass surgery done about 7.5 years ago.

[DrBill100]

I forgot to mention that I had the Roux and Y gastric bypass surgery done about 7.5 years ago.

Before looking into the alcohol consumed I have a couple of questions regarding the surgery. Particularly, since that time have you had intestinal infections or abnormal blood test results. Is the party testing you for EtG aware of the prior surgery.

Have you had a liver function test recently?

[Firebutie76]

Before looking into the alcohol consumed I have a couple of questions regarding the surgery. Particularly, since that time have you had intestinal infections or abnormal blood test results. Is the party testing you for EtG aware of the prior surgery.

Have you had a liver function test recently?

My LFT's were done this past April, and everything was within normal limits.

As for the intestinal infections or abnormal blood tests, no. I used to be slightly anemic, but generally take iron to combat this.

The outpatient treatment center that I go to was NOT aware of my surgery until the day of the UA (yesterday) right before the surgery. Also, they did not make me sign any paperwork (labels, etc.) nor show me any paperwork before capping the sample and prepping it to send out to Redwood. Is this legal? How do I know they didn't put the wrong label on it?

[DrBill100]

My LFT's were done this past April, and everything was within normal limits.

As for the intestinal infections or abnormal blood tests, no. I used to be slightly anemic, but generally take iron to combat this.

The outpatient treatment center that I go to was NOT aware of my surgery until the day of the UA (yesterday) right before the surgery. Also, they did not make me sign any paperwork (labels, etc.) nor show me any paperwork before capping the sample and prepping it to send out to Redwood. Is this legal? How do I know they didn't put the wrong label on it?

I don't think they would know. Labs usually reject samples that are not properly signed and otherwise executed on the requisition form. There are no regulations or statutes that address the non-regulated drug testing field.

I am surprised at your capacity for alcohol considering the surgery. I'm don't believe I could come close to calculating even EtOH metabolism let alone EtG,

My LFT's were done this past April, and everything was within normal limits

.

At the time of the LFT were you drinking to the extent outlined above?

[Firebutie76]

I don't think they would know. Labs usually reject samples that are not properly signed and otherwise executed on the requisition form. There are no regulations or statutes that address the non-regulated drug testing field.

I am surprised at your capacity for alcohol considering the surgery. I'm don't believe I could come close to calculating even EtOH metabolism let alone EtG,

If it helps, I did have just a straight UA (no ETG) a couple of weeks ago. I drank 2shots of 80 proof liquor from 7 am to 8:00 am and 4 Labatt's Blue Light 12 oz cans of beer from 8:30 to 10:00 am. I quit drinking at 10:00 am and had the UA done that day at 5:15 pm. I passed that. So, that was about 6 standard drinks and it was cleared by 7 hours later.

[Firebutie76]

I don't think they would know. Labs usually reject samples that are not properly signed and otherwise executed on the requisition form. There are no regulations or statutes that address the non-regulated drug testing field.

I am surprised at your capacity for alcohol considering the surgery. I'm don't believe I could come close to calculating even EtOH metabolism let alone EtG,

.

At the time of the LFT were you drinking to the extent outlined above?

Yes, but not every day of the week... just on weekends.

[Firebutie76]

Yes, but not every day of the week.....just on weekends.

And the occasional 1 or 2 days during the week (normally on Thurs and Friday) where I would drink 2 of the 4 Lokos from 6:00 pm to 10:00 pm or I would have about 4 to 6 mini bottles of 99 Bananas (99 proof) at 75 mL per bottle chased with anywhere from 20 to 32 oz of diet soda from 7:00 to 10:00 pm on those days. Thurs and Fri were in ADDITION to my drinking on Saturday nights (which was about the same as I mentioned in this post with regards to what I drank this past Saturday). Sunday through Wednesday, I didn't drink at all.

[Firebutie76]

And the occasional 1 or 2 days during the week (normally on Thurs and Friday) where I would drink 2 of the 4 Lokos from 6:00 pm to 10:00 pm or I would have about 4 to 6 mini bottles of 99 Bananas (99 proof) at 75 mL per bottle chased with anywhere from 20 to 32 oz of diet soda from 7:00 to 10:00 pm on those days. Thurs and Fri were in ADDITION to my drinking on Saturday nights (which was about the same as I mentioned in this post with regards to what I drank this past Saturday). Sunday through Wednesday, I didn't drink at all.

Sorry... I meant 50 mL mini bottles. NOT 75 mL.

[DrBill100]

Just from standpoint of alcohol metabolism: Part of a dose of EtOH is metabolized in the stomach by intestinal enzymes and then is absorbed into circulation via the small intestine. The referenced surgery, as I understand it, sub-divided your stomach and rearranged the small intestines to service each section separately. That leads to a reduction in the functional volume of the stomach and alters physiological processing of food. By extension necessarily EtOH as well. But to what degree and how is beyond me.

Usually one expects this to accelerate gastric emptying, pushing it through the stomach faster with little or no metabolism causing higher levels of alcohol to be directly absorbed in the small intestine increasing the amount of EtOH in circulation (BAC) and increasing volume that the liver must metabolize. That is based on DrBill's ABC theory.. C follows B, B follows A etc and does not consider intervening physiologic variables. Nor do I have any direct experience in this arena.

There is something I am missing because of your capacity for alcohol that is far in excess of what I would expect.

In the few cases I have reviewed GBP usually converts to intoxication at much lower levels of intake. A marked reduction in physical tolerance

I can't resolve even this basic first metabolic step let alone predict the enzymatic alterations that are in play leading to EtG/EtS synthesis.

[Firebutie76]

Just from standpoint of alcohol metabolism: Part of a dose of EtOH is metabolized in the stomach by intestinal enzymes and then is absorbed into circulation via the small intestine. The referenced surgery, as I understand it, sub-divided your stomach and rearranged the small intestines to service each section separately. That leads to a reduction in the functional volume of the stomach and alters physiological processing of food. By extension necessarily EtOH as well. But to what degree and how is beyond me.

Usually one expects this to accelerate gastric emptying, pushing it through the stomach faster with little or no metabolism causing higher levels of alcohol to be directly absorbed in the small intestine increasing the amount of EtOH in circulation (BAC) and increasing volume that the liver must metabolize. That is based on DrBill's ABC theory..C follows B, B follows A etc and does not consider intervening physiologic variables. Nor do I have any direct experience in this arena.

There is something I am missing because of your capacity for alcohol that is far in excess of what I would expect.

In the few cases I have reviewed GBP usually converts to intoxication at much lower levels of intake. A marked reduction in physical tolerance

I can't resolve even this basic first metabolic step let alone predict the enzymatic alterations that are in play leading to EtG/EtS synthesis.

Just out of sheer curiosity, if you remove the fact that I have the Gastric Bypass surgery, and assuming that my body systems would mimic that of a "normal" person, could I expect to pass the ETG test after 46 hours of not drinking with the information I provided in my original post?

Thanks again!

[DrBill100]

Just out of sheer curiosity, if you remove the fact that I have the Gastric Bypass surgery, and assuming that my body systems would mimic that of a "normal" person, could I expect to pass the ETG test after 46 hours of not drinking with the information I provided in my original post?

Thanks again!

I doubt it.

Should add that GBP should be specifically considered in any type of alcohol testing due to the enhanced potential for endogenous ethanol production (EEP) related to intestinal yeast/sucrose. EEP is sometimes referred to as auto-brewery syndrome. In my opinion EtG testing is contraindicated. I can't see what reliable conclusions could be derived from the test. Is this for medical or legal purposes?

[Firebutie76]

I doubt it.

Should add that GBP should be specifically considered in any type of alcohol testing due to the enhanced potential for endogenous ethanol production (EEP) related to intestinal yeast/sucrose. EEP is sometimes referred to as auto-brewery syndrome. In my opinion EtG testing is contraindicated. I can't see what reliable conclusions could be derived from the test. Is this for medical or legal purposes?

Legal purposes.

[Firebutie76]

Legal purposes.

Since my last drink was at about 2:00 am on Sunday morning, assuming that I didn't drink the rest of Sunday, I would most likely have been cleared of ETG on Tuesday at 8:00 when I had the test (about 66 hours from 2:00 am Sunday to 8:00 pm Tuesday).

With that said, between 8:00 am and 10:00 pm on Sunday, I figure I drank approximately 10-11 standard drinks (with the wine coolers being the least amount of % of alcohol from 8 to 10:00 pm) before going to bed. There was a lapse of about 3.5 hours from the regular wine (ending about 4:30 pm) to the wine coolers (at 8:00 pm) along with a decent amount of food and liquids Sunday through Tuesday and frequent urination (to the point of where my urine was near colorless at the test).

Coupled with this information, would the 46 hours of non-drinking be enough to clear me of the ETG reading after the approximate 10-11 standard drinks throughout Sunday? Only about 3 of those drinks were 80 proof whiskey, 5 were regular strength wine, and 2 were wine coolers at 3.2%.

Even at the time I was done drinking the Jim Beam (10:30 ish am on Sunday), had I not drank the rest of the day, I still would have had about 56 hours of no drinking until the test and most likely could have cleared the ETG (10:30 am Sun to 8:00 pm Tues).

Am I missing something?

[Firebutie76]

Since my last drink was at about 2:00 am on Sunday morning, assuming that I didn't drink the rest of Sunday, I would most likely have been cleared of ETG on Tuesday at 8:00 when I had the test (about 66 hours from 2:00 am Sunday to 8:00 pm Tuesday).

With that said, between 8:00 am and 10:00 pm on Sunday, I figure I drank approximately 10-11 standard drinks (with the wine coolers being the least amount of % of alcohol from 8 to 10:00 pm) before going to bed. There was a lapse of about 3.5 hours from the regular wine (ending about 4:30 pm) to the wine coolers (at 8:00 pm) along with a decent amount of food and liquids Sunday through Tuesday and frequent urination (to the point of where my urine was near colorless at the test).

Coupled with this information, would the 46 hours of non-drinking be enough to clear me of the ETG reading after the approximate 10-11 standard drinks throughout Sunday? Only about 3 of those drinks were 80 proof whiskey, 5 were regular strength wine, and 2 were wine coolers at 3.2%.

Even at the time I was done drinking the Jim Beam (10:30 ish am on Sunday), had I not drank the rest of the day, I still would have had about 56 hours of no drinking until the test and most likely could have cleared the ETG (10:30 am Sun to 8:00 pm Tues).

Am I missing something?

Forgot to add...

Since I still could have reasonably been cleared of ETG after quitting the whiskey at 10:30 am with 56 hours of no drinking, that means that from 3:00 pm to 10:00 pm on Sunday I had approximately 5 standard drinks (3 regular strength wine drinks and 2 wine coolers).

Sooo... wouldn't that equate to 5 standard drinks with 46 hours of non drinking prior to the test?

[Firebutie76]

Forgot to add.....

Since I still could have reasonably been cleared of ETG after quitting the whiskey at 10:30 am with 56 hours of no drinking, that means that from 3:00 pm to 10:00 pm on Sunday I had approximately 5 standard drinks (3 regular strength wine drinks and 2 wine coolers).

Sooo......wouldn't that equate to 5 standard drinks with 46 hours of non drinking prior to the test?

I have my sample sent out to Redwood, which I originally thought was a cutoff of 100 ng; however, upon reading their website, it is actually 500 ng unless a positive result is detected. The confirmation of this potentially positive result is then confirmed using a 100 ng cutoff.

With the information provided, will approximately 10 standard drinks be clear of ETG after 46 hours of no drinking and a 500 ng cutoff?

[DrBill100]

Forgot to add.....

Since I still could have reasonably been cleared of ETG after quitting the whiskey at 10:30 am with 56 hours of no drinking, that means that from 3:00 pm to 10:00 pm on Sunday I had approximately 5 standard drinks (3 regular strength wine drinks and 2 wine coolers).

Sooo......wouldn't that equate to 5 standard drinks with 46 hours of non drinking prior to the test?

Anything is possible with EtG. The most recent study out of Germany found that even in the detox setting, where all had admitting BACs above .20 some (26%) had no detectable EtG at 24 hours*. Yet under similar conditions others have found measurable EtG at 102 hours.

Conversely I have personally investigated cases where no alcohol was consumed and totally abstinent individuals tested above 10,000 one at 24,000 ng.

It is my conclusion that EtG cannot be predicted precisely on a drink/time scale.

The timeline you set forth for 5 drinks at 46 hours is plausible but even then on the razors edge.

Albermann, Musshoff, et al (2012)

[Firebutie76]

Anything is possible with EtG. The most recent study out of Germany found that even in the detox setting, where all had admitting BACs above .20 some (26%) had no detectable EtG at 24 hours*. Yet under similar conditions others have found measurable EtG at 102 hours.

Conversely I have personally investigated cases where no alcohol was consumed and totally abstinent individuals tested above 10,000 one at 24,000 ng.

It is my conclusion that EtG cannot be predicted precisely on a drink/time scale.

The timeline you set forth for 5 drinks at 46 hours is plausible but even then on the razors edge.

Albermann, Musshoff, et al (2012)

Dr. Bill100

I just wanted to thank you for all of your valuable information that you willingly provide on this site. I wanted to give you an update regarding the status of my precarious situation as mentioned in these previous posts...

I PASSED! : )