[Triund]

The other day I was at my friend's house who are not believers. I tell them, on and off, stories from The Bible and about Jesus. One day 11 year old boy in the family asked me that how can we be sure that the authors of books in The Bible were not Schizophreniacs and how did they know that God was dictating them. I tried my best to show him how the books from Genesis to Revelation are all connected though they were written in different ages over a span of more than thousand years, but he was still not moving away from his thought of Schizophrenia.

Any other ideas how to give him the message about writings inspired by God?

[NeedKarma]

Not to get off track but how the heck does an 11 year old (I have one) know about schizophrenia?

[Triund]

Not to get off track but how the heck does an 11 year old (I have one) know about schizophrenia?

Boyyy... man... if you ever listen to him on the phone, you would think you are talking to a grown up boy. His parent let him watch TV shows which are for 14 and up.

[Wondergirl]

Instead of preaching to him and lecturing him, ask him questions about how he came to the conclusion that the authors were schizophrenic. Has he seen something on TV about that or read about it? I would prompt him into a discussion by making "oh" and "tell me more" and other interested-sounding comments. Draw him out and LISTEN to him.

By talking over him, by vehemently denying the schizophrenia idea, by verbally bullying him that your belief is better than his belief, you are turning him off to listen to the Gospel when the time comes for you to speak it.

[NeedKarma]

There is a possibility that the parents have "poisoined the well" so to speak. Not sure if the child is truly curious or trying to goad you into a discussion that won't go anywhere for anyone.

[dwashbur]

There is a possibility that the parents have "poisoined the well" so to speak. Not sure if the child is truly curious or trying to goad you into a discussion that won't go anywhere for anyone.

Good point. That's why WG's advice is so excellent: find out WHY he's asking these questions. You say he talks like a grownup, so treat him like one conversationally. And I would just suggest: don't try to always have an answer. Listen to him, digest what he says, and tell him it's something to think about and then ask if you can have a little time to try and find some answers so you can discuss it more. A little respect goes a long way.

[Fr_Chuck]

You can not "prove" anything to people who will not accept things on some levels of faith, he found a good "what if" and is sticking to, and nothing can be said to change.

Obviously these were written by dozens of people, many who were tortured and suffered for what they taught.

[hauntinghelper]

If I might add, however, he obviously doesn't know what schizophrenia really is or he has no idea how the bible is written... my vote is that it's both of the above. But everyone is correct, you can't PROVE this to him and argue over him. Sometimes the gospel just has to "come" to people rather than them coming to it first. Be patient.

[ebaines]

It's useless to try to "prove" that the Bible is divinely inspired, and if you try to go the route of arguing the point using logic you will not succeed. As FR-Chuck says, some level of faith is required here. The argument you used - that the Bible was written by many different people over many many years - is not by itself convincing to a non-believer because it also true for some works of fiction, such as the ancient Greek myths. The Greek myths were developed over many years and codified by Ovid, Homer and others. Would you conclude that therefore the Greek myths must be true? I think not.

[Triund]

Thanks dear one. Once again you helped me to walk through this tough road. You all converged on same point which was so beautiful.

I should really change my approach while answering a question about Bible which is from one who does not acknowledge authority of Jesus. The other day I was listening to interview of Ravi Zacharias. He said something like that easiest way to answer a questioner is to question him and the questions will get him the answer. I know this is an art, but not impossible to learn. And this is true. Asking questions would start peeling off the layers the person is hiding behind. Secondly, until the reason behind the question is not exposed, whatever proof I give would not reach home.

Unfortunetly, his parent have "poisoned the well" that's why I do not miss any teachable opportunity to share Jesus with parent. Once the root is fixed, offshoots would bear fruit. I also know that it is not me who would change the parent, but only Lord God and that too in HIS own time.

Thanks folks, God bless you all.

[NeedKarma]

Of course it doesn't mean that they are bad people (not implying you said that, my words), they just choose to have different beliefs.

[dwashbur]

Of course it doesn't mean that they are bad people (not implying you said that, my words), they just choose to have different beliefs.

With respect, NK, this isn't how the average conservative Christian sees it. We don't see them as "bad people" either. There's a difference between someone who's "bad," and someone who's "lost." In this context, "lost" means "separated from God." Everybody sins, and one sin is as bad as another. Some churches teach that there are degrees of sin, that certain ones are worse and others aren't so bad, but the Bible knows no such distinction. Lying about where I was yesterday is just as bad as murder, because the God we understand from the Bible can't overlook ANY sin. What this means is, everybody is lost. Our sin separates us from God and makes it impossible to have a relationship with him, because his nature requires all sin to be punished. That's where Jesus comes in, because in our understanding, God put the punishment for everyone's sin on him. As a result, he offers us reconciliation with God, that relationship that's not possible because of sin, as a free gift. A gift isn't yours until you take it; it's possible to reject a gift that someone gives you. And it's the same with God's gift; people are free to accept or reject it, and either way, God is required by his own nature to hold them accountable for their decision. Triund doesn't want these people to make the wrong choice and suffer the consequences, because he cares about them.

While there are those who like to use scare tactics to try and get people to believe, I haven't seen too many of those, and I don't think I've actually seen any here. With us, it's more like this: when you have something fantastic, something you consider the greatest thing in the world, it's natural to want to share it with those you care about. That's our goal: to share something great. You're free to believe differently, but in our book, not all beliefs are equal. There is such a thing as absolute truth, and we want everyone we know to share in it and reap the benefits of what God has done for humanity. We don't say that those who reject it are bad people; we're all bad people. But God makes a provision for us to have a relationship with him and be forgiven in spite of the fact that we're just as bad as anybody else. That's not an occasion for gloating or feeling superior.; it's an occasion for humble gratitude. I'll grant there are a lot of Christians who don't get that last part, which is why my sig says, don't judge Jesus by the company he keeps.

I said all that to say this: there are legitimate, loving reasons we try so hard to persuade people the way Triund is with this child and his parents. It's not a case of trying to force our beliefs onto someone else; it's a case of wanting to share something we believe is the most important thing in the world, because we care about the people involved. If we just shrugged and said "Oh well, they believe differently, and that's cool" we would be shirking what we see as our duty to show these people the love of God.

I welcome your thoughts on the subject.

[NeedKarma]

Triund doesn't want these people to make the wrong choice and suffer the consequences, because he cares about them.

By thinking that people have made the 'wrong' choice you are judging people. If they aren't doing anything wrong, if they are good people then let them continue to be good people.

There is such a thing as absolute truth,

Well actually christians co-opted the word 'truth' and invented the expression 'absolute truth', otherwise it's very much up for debate.

It's not a case of trying to force our beliefs onto someone else;

Well he walks into a house of a non-believer and, to quote him "I tell them, on and off, stories from The Bible and about Jesus." I'd say that's preaching to someone who didn't ask for it.

[dwashbur]

By thinking that people have made the 'wrong' choice you are judging people. If they aren't doing anything wrong, if they are good people then let them continue to be good people.

That's exactly what I just explained. There are *no* "good people." If we judge good by our own standards, sure, there are good people. But in the Christian view, our standards aren't the ones that count. God's standard is the only one that matters. Please go back and read what I wrote again, because I'm not sure you understood it. I'll be glad to answer any questions you have.

[Triund]

NK, your input is very welcomed and it gives me a perspective to see with a different angle and to see what the people who say we good deeds, hence we are bound to heaven means.

Unfortunetly, my friend, if this were the case, then many things in the world happening in different cultures and communities, would not be wrong. Yet we say those are wrong. On what basis we claim it to be wrong? There are practices people follow and accoding to their traditions which, even, can go up to extreme of human sacrifice, why do we say it is wrong? If we do not have an anchor of Absolute Truth to which we can hook on to, we can not tell others that you should reconsider your path you are walking on. This is not "Judging" others. This is showing others that the path you are heading on to is not for eternal peace. Telling this to others is exactly the same what dwasgbur said that it is offering something good we want our friends to enjoy. And this very analogy of sharing good stuff, I told to another friend of mine last year who told me that I am imposing my beliefs on him, whereas I never told him the same when he shares his beliefs with me. I listen to him and if I like it to some extent, I ask more details about it. And if he convinces me, I adopt it. However, he has yet to convince me on any of his points.

Even though I am not supposed to talk about The Bible or Jesus in a Public School, I still do it. And I know that my job is at stack, but if the conversation could bring someone on the right path, I would be happy to lay myself as a bridge for that person to cross over.

[NeedKarma]

And if he convinces me, I adopt it. However, he has yet to convince me on any of his points.

BTW this is usually the case for the people you speak to as well.
If you needa holy book to tell you what is right and wrong then more power to you, many of us has no such requirement to make that distinction.
You and I both know that being a christian does not necessarily make one a better person.

[dwashbur]

You and I both know that being a christian does not necessarily make one a better person.

Once again, that's not the issue.

[Triund]

You and I both know that being a christian does not necessarily make one a better person.

I would differ and not differ on this with you. What I am trying to say is that being a Christian really does not make one a better person, however it shows us that we can become a better person in the eyes of our Lord by walking away from our sins. And this is important to know because at the end of the day, we are answerable to HIM and only HIM and not anybody on this earth.

Even though people become Christians but maintaining the purity up to HIS expectation is not easy. Yet HE provides us the power and strength to stand up every time we fall. Now here it depends on an individual that how many times one make very sincere effort to stay away from the sin. Those who strive to keep sin at an arms length, I think they should be recognised and appluaded as "Better People", the same way we praise an Olympic winner or World Champions, an explorer or a musician.

[NeedKarma]

Those who strive to keep sin at an arms length, I think they should be recognised and appluaded as "Better People", the same way we praise an Olympic winner or World Champions, an explorer or a musician.

On this we agree. I just don't try to convert perople.

[Triund]

On this we agree. I just don't try to convert perople.

Even a Christian is not asked to convert people. Jesus did say to make disciples and teach them the ways HE has told. And this can only happen when an individual shows interest to learn something. I do not believe in converting people, I do share Jesus with them. I take word "convert" for something which is forced to make a change. And Jesus did not tell us to use force to make disciples.