In Jesus's name, or not

excon · Jul 26, 2009, 11:12 AM

Hello Christians:

Does it diminish a prayer if the prayer leader ends it with just a plain Amen, instead of "in the name of Jesus, Amen"?

I ask, because as I watch the NASCAR race, I'm offended when they pray to Jesus. It kinda leaves ME OUT. I don't like to be left out.

I've also heard them end their invocation INCLUSIVELY, too. That is WITHOUT mention of Jesus. Are THOSE prayers less effective than those when Jesus's name is invoked?

excon

PS> Yeah, I complained about it right here several years ago... It STILL pisses me off.

jenniepepsi · Jul 27, 2009, 09:07 PM

mmm excon, i know i am completely open accepting and perfectly fine with being at an event and them praying to another god than mine. i simply pray to my god while they are praying to thiers

N0help4u · Jul 27, 2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenniepepsi

mmm excon, i know i am completely open accepting and perfectly fine with being at an event and them praying to another god than mine. i simply pray to my god while they are praying to thiers

Exactly

jmjoseph · Jul 28, 2009, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, clete:

It's not about being better than you. It's about having a different religion, attending a public event, and being excluded. I dunno what's so hard to understand about that. Unless, you too lose your mind when it comes to religious things.

Plus, you'll have to forgive me... but I don't believe that YOU particular Christians wouldn't be offended if you attended a public event and they invoked some other god than your own. Nahhh, you religious folks ain't that liberal...

You're not really gonna tell me that crap, are you??? Come on, it's a sin to lie. IF you went to your city counsel meeting and they prayed to the pagen god of the wilderness, WE'D never hear the end of it. Who're you trying to kid?

excon

Not kidding me either. Some people don't think that there EVEN is anything different than their own belief. And that those who do, pray for their "mis-guided" ways.

s_cianci · Jul 28, 2009, 04:54 AM

Quote:

he wants you to change the way you live

Yeah, but so does Santa Claus, right? You know, makin' a list, checkin' it twice, gonna find out who's naughty and nice... lol.

mugger · Jul 28, 2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s_cianci

Yeah, but so does Santa Claus, right? You know, makin' a list, checkin' it twice, gonna find out who's naughty and nice... lol.

lmao, that is beautiful! i, personally, was subjected to the idea through my church when i was younger that santa claus worked with the church (hence- saint nick). santa claus even came to my church- should that be considered blasphemy? then you find out he's not real and then, naturally, you have to question the church and people in your life who told you this lie and wonder what else are they lying to me about.

NeedKarma · Jul 28, 2009, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenniepepsi

mmm excon, i know i am completely open accepting and perfectly fine with being at an event and them praying to another god than mine. i simply pray to my god while they are praying to thiers

I'm waiting for a touching prayer to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

may his noodly appendage touch you

RAmen.

N0help4u · Jul 28, 2009, 10:44 AM

Dear spaghetti monster
You know I love you
especially the garden marinara but on the thick side. All covered with meatballs I really do adore. Let the garlic bread be extra tasty and most of all grant me seconds.

NeedKarma · Jul 28, 2009, 10:56 AM

Well done.

15 internet points for you

ETWolverine · Jul 28, 2009, 11:30 AM

Hi guys,

I'd like to weigh in on this.

I understand where excon is coming from. I'm an Orthodox Jew, for those of you who didn't already know, so I have some similar thoughts as excon on this issue.

The question that has been asked here is why excon would be offended if a prayer was ended with "in Jesus' Name, Amen". And excon has tried, rather well, to explain why he feels the way he feels. I think he's done a good job of explaining the feeling of being left out.

But from my perspective, there's more to it than that.

To us, the very name of "Jesus" brings up thoughts of persecutions. After the death of Jesus, the Jews were persecuted terribly by Rome. In fact, this week (Thursday to be exact) is the anniversary of the destruction of the Great Temple by Rome, and the massacres that came along with it. Those persecutions under Rome lasted for centuries.

Then, begining with the 2nd and 3rd Century CE, as the Christian Church grew in prominence, the name "Jesus" became symbolic of prosecutions by the Church and its members. Everything from the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, the Blood Libels, and various small and large pogroms came from the Christians yelling "Jesus killers" at us. In fact, the lie that we had killed Jesus was considered part of Church doctrine until only very recently.

Then there are the incidents throughout history of our children being taken from us by Christians and being converted to Christianity. Even today, groups like Jews for Jesus (which is really an arm of the Southern Baptist Church) still try to convert uneducated/unaffiliated Jews to Christianity by trying to convince them that beliefe in Jesus is somehow a part of the Jewish religion, when it is not. We Jews consider this to be an attack on Jewish souls... and such attacks have been very successful. We consider that an anthema to our religion. You may consider it "bringing that person closer to Jesus and G-d", but we consider it a deliberate attack on the souls of Jews.

In short, our history with Jesus and the invocation of Jesus' name is not a good one.

Is it any wonder that prayers to Jesus on in Jesus' name would make a Jew feel uncomfortable?

Should we feel that way? Perhaps not. But you can't discount that much history as an emotional motivator.

I'm not going to ask you guys to agree with our point of view on this. The point of view comes with a national history that most of you don't share with us. But I will ask you how you would feel if that WERE your point of view.

If you were a Jew, with all that history in your background, how would you feel about a Christian prayer? Would it make you uncomfortable? Would it make you feel left out?

Think about it.

Elliot

N0help4u · Jul 28, 2009, 11:40 AM

I agree and can understand that ETW.
I am Christian and I do not like religion, but I differentiate Jesus from the religions that invocation of Jesus' name because it is not a good one when it is in the name of Jesus and they are no better than the KKK.
They twist the name of Jesus to their own image and liking.
Personally I am FOR the Jew and NOT for the Rome that would do such things. To me they are blasphming your G-d as well as mine



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