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Okay, I wanted more opinions on this. My mom got this email and sent it to me:
Quote:
'Twas the month before Christmas when all through our
land, Not a Christian was praying nor taking a stand.
Why the PC Police had taken away,
The reason for Christmas - no one could say.
The children were told by their schools not to sing,
About Shepherds and Wise Men and Angels and things.
It might hurt people's feelings, the
teachers would say December 25th is just a " Holiday".
Yet the shoppers were ready with cash, checks and
credit Pushing folks down to the floor just to get at it!
CDs from Madonna, an X BOX, an I-pod
Something was changing, something quite odd!
Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanzaa In hopes to
sell books by Franken & Fonda.
As Targets are hanging their trees upside down, At
Lowe's the word Christmas - was no where to be found.
At K-Mart and Staples and Penny's and Sears You won't
hear the word Christmas; it won't touch your ears.
Inclusive, sensitive, Di-ver-is-ty
Are words that were used to intimidate me.
Now Daschle, Now Darden, Now Sharpton, Wolf Blitzen On
Boxer, on Rather, on Kerry, on Hillary Clinton !
At the top of the Senate, there arose
such a clatter To eliminate Jesus, in all public matter.
And we spoke not a word, as they took away our faith,
Forbidden to speak, of salvation and grace.
The true Gift of Christmas was exchanged and discarded
The reason for the season, stopped before it started.
So as you celebrate "Winter Break" under your
"DreamTree" Sipping your Starbucks, listen to me.
Choose your words carefully, choose what you say
I would rather say Happy whatever for each holiday then just say "Happy Holidays"
If people get so offended by saying "Merry Chirstmas" Dont they know that some people get offended if you say Happy Holidays? What do you guys think?
I case you havnt noticed Christ is the reason for the season.
Cliches make poor arguments. Just an FYI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldout
for those who are not Christian and hate Christians
Since when does not celebrating the holidays of a religion one has no belief in make them hateful towards that religion? Christians don't celebrate Yom Kippur- can I then logically assume that they have a hatred of all things Jewish?
Apparently, by your logic, I can. So shame on you, you anti-semite!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldout
Dont put decorations on your house, dont buy a christmas tree and dont get you kids presents and you can also go to work on the 25th.
So, those are the perks of your holiday? Wow, I thought it was a celebration of the birth of your Savior- but now that I see the things a Christian points out as highlights of the holiday- decorations, presents, and a day off from work- heck, maybe I oughta convert. If that's what it's really all about, I mean... who wouldn't want that!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldout
i dont understand why other religions or athiests are trying to dilute a christian celebration by trying to make it their own by saying Happy holiday
Hmm... the stealing of one religion's celebratory traditions and adapting them to different systems of beliefs... interesting that something along those lines would offend you. Google 'pagan roots of Christmas traditions' and see what you come up with. Would you pay any mind to a Pagan complaining about you diluting their holiday and usurping their traditions?
Not that that's the reason people say 'Happy Holidays' anyway... but more on that below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldout
What is the Holiday for, i will tell you it is about the birth of our savior.
For your holiday, yes, that's what it is about. Well sort of. It's actually more of a celebration of the incarnation, God become human- not really the 'happy birthday, jesus' celebration so many Christians choose to celebrate. But in any case, it is critical that you recognize that while that is what YOUR holiday may be about, it is not the only holiday celebrated this time of year, and it is NOT the reason for all other holidays this time of year. Making that assumption is not really the best way to present yourself as an intelligent person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldout
If you dont beleive in Him & it bothers you, lock yourself up in your house and cpme out on the 26th when the season is over.
Not bothered by Christmas itself, but rather by the insistence that everyone wish everyone, irregardless of actual religious beleif, a 'Merry Christmas'- doesn't that seem quite foolish, and actually cause the meaning of your holiday to be further diminished? Saying specific words to one another does not cause people to come to a deeper recognition of the meaning of your holiday- would you be happy if the phrase 'Merry Christmas' gradually became as generic a wish as 'Happy Holidays'? Wishing a 'happy holiday' includes those whose religious beliefs you may not know (i.e. a store associate speaking to a customer). Wish your Christian friends, Christian family members, and fellow church-goers a Merry Christmas. But why force words upon others to whom they have no significance? Is it really the intent of Christians to drain all meaning from their holiday all together?
Just an FYI, I am no longer responding to your posts beyond this point. You take what I say out of context, twist the meaning, and respond with sarcasm... it has become increasingly clear that if I am looking for intelligent debate, it cannot be had with you-
I was mildly entertained by your ignorance for a time, but now you're simply becoming irritating.
So please, do not interpret my lack of response as you having made a point or left me with nothing to say. It has just reached a point where I no longer wish to engage in this circular discourse with you.
lol.. the cliche actually fit perfectly with my argument. I could not have found a better way to articulate it. Jesus is the reason for the season amen! so those who dont like it to bad so sad.
Quote:
Since when does not celebrating the holidays of a religion one has no belief in make them hateful towards that religion? Christians don't celebrate Yom Kippur- can I then logically assume that they have a hatred of all things Jewish?
Apparently, by your logic, I can. So shame on you, you anti-semite!
mmm.. i dont think you understand what i meant. I was actually directing that you, not so much people in general because it quite obvious that you have some hatred and bitterness towards the Christmas holiday and it is most probably because you hate christians just like rest of the world does. but i am not mad at ya, for that, noo.. Jesus said just as he was hated so will we, His followers, be hated so i am not the least bit surprised. When other religions celebrate thier holidays Ramadan, yom kippur etc and they do their rituals no one cares but when Christians want to celebrate their holiday people make such a big deal about it. Why dont you call Yom kippur and Ramadan "happy Holiday"? If a store does not want to remain nuetral then they should not say happy holiday either. I think that is fair enough. And by the way, i am not an anti-semite my best friend is Jewish and as Christians we are called to love and pray for the Jews. Our savior is a Jew! So if you want to continue to have an inteligent adult discussion about this issue, i think you need to stop your unwarrented name calling and revise the terms of use of this website.
Quote:
So, those are the perks of your holiday? Wow, I thought it was a celebration of the birth of your Savior- but now that I see the things a Christian points out as highlights of the holiday- decorations, presents, and a day off from work- heck, maybe I oughta convert. If that's what it's really all about, I mean... who wouldn't want that!?
Yes! Those are the perks of our holiday! duh yes that is how we celebrate the birth of our savior. Gift giving, feeding the poor, christmas trees, christmas lights, day off from work (love that) getting together with family, singing christmas carrols e.t.c. Its the most wonderful time of the year! The highlight and the reason for this celebration is the precious Son of God and we sing praises to Him and celebrate his birth. Maybe you should convert, you will love it, you wont be disappointed.
Quote:
Hmm... the stealing of one religion's celebratory traditions and adapting them to different systems of beliefs... interesting that something along those lines would offend you. Google 'pagan roots of Christmas traditions' and see what you come up with. Would you pay any mind to a Pagan complaining about you diluting their holiday and usurping their traditions?
Atleast the pagons had a reason for the holiday. Not just "happy holiday" for no reason.
Quote:
For your holiday, yes, that's what it is about. Well sort of. It's actually more of a celebration of the incarnation, God become human- not really the 'happy birthday, jesus' celebration so many Christians choose to celebrate. But in any case, it is critical that you recognize that while that is what YOUR holiday may be about, it is not the only holiday celebrated this time of year, and it is NOT the reason for all other holidays this time of year. Making that assumption is not really the best way to present yourself as an intelligent person.
If you didnt know this, i hate to be the one to break this to you but Thanksgiving was actually established to give thanks to GOD. So everytime you eat that turkey remember that. (It may not taste very good anymore) And if you are talking about New years Holiday then people should just say Happy New Year, why complicate things and cause controversy for nothing.
Quote:
Not bothered by Christmas itself, but rather by the insistence that everyone wish everyone, irregardless of actual religious beleif, a 'Merry Christmas'- doesn't that seem quite foolish, and actually cause the meaning of your holiday to be further diminished? Saying specific words to one another does not cause people to come to a deeper recognition of the meaning of your holiday- would you be happy if the phrase 'Merry Christmas' gradually became as generic a wish as 'Happy Holidays'? Wishing a 'happy holiday' includes those whose religious beliefs you may not know (i.e. a store associate speaking to a customer). Wish your Christian friends, Christian family members, and fellow church-goers a Merry Christmas. But why force words upon others to whom they have no significance? Is it really the intent of Christians to drain all meaning from their holiday all together?
The store clerks can just say Happy new year if they wanna stay neutral. Because what ever you wanna call it "Happy holidays" or "Happy Cup Cake" we all know what the underlying holiday is about. Its about the birth of Christ. So its just like saying i am not going to say to people Happy 4th July i am just going to say "happy holiday". You can call it "happy holiday" if you want but is does not change the fact that it is independence day. So the bottom line is no one is forced to participate in the Christmas cheer if you dont want to. If someone says merry christmas to you, just dont respond.
True, Christmas is the Christian celebration of the incarnation- however, other holidays are celebrated this time of year. Why does Christmas deserve specific recognition above all other holidays? Why assume it is what someone else is celebrating
Christmas has special recognition, it always has and always will. Get over it. 7 out of 10 people you will meet in america are christian and more than 1 of 3 people you will meet in the whole world are Christians. Christmas is celebrated everywhere around the world so you need to just get over your bitterness towards it. stop worrying about it and just be glad you get a day off on Dec 25.
Christmas is celebrated everywhere around the world so you need to just get over your bitterness towards it. stop worrying about it and just be glad you get a day off on Dec 25.
I hate to burst your bubble but most people celebrate Christmas not because of Jesus but because of Santa and gifts for children.
Just an FYI, I am no longer responding to your posts beyond this point.
That is fine. I'd simply like to clarify the following:
Quote:
You take what I say out of context, twist the meaning, and respond with sarcasm... it has become increasingly clear that if I am looking for intelligent debate, it cannot be had with you-
No. I quoted you verbatim. You made an anti-Christian remark. Lets see it again:
Quote:
margog85 agrees: Apparently, it is the Christian way. To be condescending, self-righteous, and always see the ways they are 'victimized' by society.
Show me the twist? Oh, I forgot, you ain't responding.
Quote:
I was mildly entertained by your ignorance for a time, but now you're simply becoming irritating.
Yeah, yeah. What irritates you is that you want everyone to agree with your anti-Christian agenda. But I won't.
Quote:
So please, do not interpret my lack of response as you having made a point or left me with nothing to say. It has just reached a point where I no longer wish to engage in this circular discourse with you.
I reserve the right to address your anti-Christian comments.
lol.. the cliche actually fit perfectly with my argument. I could not have found a better way to articulate it. Jesus is the reason for the season amen! so those who dont like it to bad so sad.
I understand that Jesus is the reason for YOUR holiday. But not all holidays this time of year. Your cliché may make be true for your as a Christian- Jesus being a reason for the Christmas season- but Jesus hasn’t got a thing to do with other holidays being celebrated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldout
mmm.. i dont think you understand what i meant. I was actually directing that you, not so much people in general because it quite obvious that you have some hatred and bitterness towards the Christmas holiday and it is most probably because you hate christians just like rest of the world does. but i am not mad at ya, for that, noo.. Jesus said just as he was hated so will we, His followers, be hated so i am not the least bit surprised. When other religions celebrate thier holidays Ramadan, yom kippur etc and they do their rituals no one cares but when Christians want to celebrate their holiday people make such a big deal about it.
Just to make this clear, I have no hatred towards Christians. I, like anyone else, become irritated by self-righteous, arrogant, and condescending individuals, regardless of their religious beliefs. Based on experience, I tend to find that the majority of people I’ve encountered who embody those traits also identify as Christian- and many of the posts within this discussion have simply reinforced that and provided more examples of nasty, sarcastic, and self-righteous Christians who refuse to consider an alternate perspective.
That is not hatred or bigotry or bitterness- I have nothing against Christmas and I do not hate Christians- You can celebrate your holiday all you like- my point is, not everyone needs to recognize your holiday specifically when there are other people celebrating other holidays at this time- How can you expect a store associate to know from a brief encounter that you are a Christian and you are celebrating Christmas? Rather than make the assumption and exclude others, ‘Happy Holdiays’ is more suitable- just a general wishing of a pleasant season and enjoyment in your celebration of whichever holiday you choose to celebrate- why that is such an issue makes no sense to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldout
Yes! Those are the perks of our holiday! duh yes that is how we celebrate the birth of our savior. Gift giving, feeding the poor, christmas trees, christmas lights, day off from work (love that) getting together with family, singing christmas carrols e.t.c. Its the most wonderful time of the year! The highlight and the reason for this celebration is the precious Son of God and we sing praises to Him and celebrate his birth. Maybe you should convert, you will love it, you wont be disappointed.
Christmas is the best time of the year? Really? Better than Easter, then? Aren’t both equally important to Christians? The incarnation of God in human flesh and blood, an individual who is equally human and divine… and then His death and resurrection for the atonement of sin and reconciliation of man and God?
But hey… maybe to some Christians, Christmas is ‘better’. Not many people exchange Easter presents, right? And if the perks of this holiday outweigh the perks of Easter (just a day off, no decorations or presents) then I guess it’s better and more important, hmm?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldout
Atleast the pagons had a reason for the holiday. Not just "happy holiday" for no reason.
‘Happy Holidays’ is not without reason- it’s simply something said by an individual who declines to make an assumption in regards to the religious belief of the person they are wishing it to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldout
If you didnt know this, i hate to be the one to break this to you but Thanksgiving was actually established to give thanks to GOD. So everytime you eat that turkey remember that. (It may not taste very good anymore) And if you are talking about New years Holiday then people should just say Happy New Year, why complicate things and cause controversy for nothing.
Ummm… okay, well, if you didn’t know this, then I hate to break it to you, but there are other religious and cultural celebrations at this time of year as well- not everyone is celebrating only Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years and nothing else. For example: Hannukah (Jewish), Bodhi Day (Buddhist), Eid-al-Adha (Muslim), Kwanza (African-American), Yule (Pagan)…. So the controversy isn’t for ‘nothing’- unless you consider others’ religious beliefs to be insignificant. Is that the case?
Although I said I would no longer respond to you, you asked for clarification, which I will gladly provide. You accused me of anti-Christian bigotry and cite my ‘admission’ of such bigotry when I made the following statement:
"Anti-christian bigotry or a generalization based on observation and interaction?"
That is not an admission to an anti-christian bigotry. It is a statement indicating that my experiences with Christians have provided me with the perspective I now have. I hold nothing against the Christian religion itself- and I respect and admire many Christians who are respectful of others and lack the self-righteous edge that you so proudly display.
So, if you want to know where you are twisting things, there's example number one. And, as for this quote:
margog85 agrees: Apparently, it is the Christian way. To be condescending, self-righteous, and always see the ways they are 'victimized' by society.
This is simply a comment I had made in response to the way the Christians, particularly you, have conducted themselves in this discussion. This is an example of taking things out of context and twisting them as you see fit to make yourself look better and me look like a disrespectful bigot- meanwhile, my entire argument throughout this thread is advocating respect for all religions at this time of year by wishing a generic Happy Holidays if you just don’t know what the other person celebrates.
Why is that such a terrible thing to stand for?
Inclusion and respect are apparently not values you hold in very high esteem.
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