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Okay, I wanted more opinions on this. My mom got this email and sent it to me:
Quote:
'Twas the month before Christmas when all through our
land, Not a Christian was praying nor taking a stand.
Why the PC Police had taken away,
The reason for Christmas - no one could say.
The children were told by their schools not to sing,
About Shepherds and Wise Men and Angels and things.
It might hurt people's feelings, the
teachers would say December 25th is just a " Holiday".
Yet the shoppers were ready with cash, checks and
credit Pushing folks down to the floor just to get at it!
CDs from Madonna, an X BOX, an I-pod
Something was changing, something quite odd!
Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanzaa In hopes to
sell books by Franken & Fonda.
As Targets are hanging their trees upside down, At
Lowe's the word Christmas - was no where to be found.
At K-Mart and Staples and Penny's and Sears You won't
hear the word Christmas; it won't touch your ears.
Inclusive, sensitive, Di-ver-is-ty
Are words that were used to intimidate me.
Now Daschle, Now Darden, Now Sharpton, Wolf Blitzen On
Boxer, on Rather, on Kerry, on Hillary Clinton !
At the top of the Senate, there arose
such a clatter To eliminate Jesus, in all public matter.
And we spoke not a word, as they took away our faith,
Forbidden to speak, of salvation and grace.
The true Gift of Christmas was exchanged and discarded
The reason for the season, stopped before it started.
So as you celebrate "Winter Break" under your
"DreamTree" Sipping your Starbucks, listen to me.
Choose your words carefully, choose what you say
I would rather say Happy whatever for each holiday then just say "Happy Holidays"
If people get so offended by saying "Merry Chirstmas" Dont they know that some people get offended if you say Happy Holidays? What do you guys think?
Are you faulting us because we exercise our rights? Last I looked we have a right to gather peacefully, we have a right of free speech and we have a right to practice our faith.
Did you object when feminists burned their bras to demand the freedom to kill infants it their womb?
Do you also object when gays parade up and down the streets demanding the freedom to have their cohabitation recognized as marriage?
Or do you simply object to Christians exercising their rights?
Sincerely,
De Maria
Not at all, I have no desire to take away anyone's freedoms. Christians have the right to protest, to boycott stores, etc just as much as anyone else. I was responding to Moon's statement regarding Christians protesting more than others was not factual, hence the fact her statement was quoted directly above mine.
For the record though, I think it's petty and childish to rip pages out of medical books, to steal books you don't like the content of and to destroy food you have not purchased as a form of protest. I believe, if those individuals were actually caught for their actions they could be charged for destruction of property or for theft. That's not the Christian way, is it?
Are you faulting us because we exercise our rights? Last I looked we have a right to gather peacefully, we have a right of free speech and we have a right to practice our faith.
Did you object when feminists burned their bras to demand the freedom to kill infants it their womb?
Do you also object when gays parade up and down the streets demanding the freedom to have their cohabitation recognized as marriage?
Or do you simply object to Christians exercising their rights?
Sincerely,
De Maria
No one is faulting you for exercising your rights. Just pointing out that the objection to 'Happy Holidays' is a far louder protest than those who are against 'Merry Christmas'. You have the right to protest whatever you want- just don't expect things to go your way when you're insisitng that your religion and only your religion be recognized at this time of year. It's not going to happen- you can say Merry Christmas all you want and no one will persecute you for it- but when a store associate wishes you well generically rather than making assumptions in regard to your beliefs and what you're celebrating, finding fault in them for that is wrong.
The examples you give are poor. The feminist and gay rights movements are efforts to acquire basic human rights for those who currently do not have them. This debate is insignificant in comparison. As Jillianleab said, the real outrage should be at the commercialism during your sacred holiday season, not what the store associate utters mindlessly 500 times a day as you pay for a cart load of unnecessary material items.
No one is trying to prevent Christians from exercising their rights- so please don't try to victimize Christians. In society and government today, it is really more along the lines of Christians trying to prevent those who are of alternate beliefs from exercising their rights- for example, since you brought it up, preventing gays from marrying because according to Christian morality homosexuality is a sin, and apparently Christian morality is the dictator of Federal law- but that's off topic, so let's not go there.
The fact is, it is Christians who respect others religions. Christianity respects and teaches freedom of conscience. That is why the founding Fathers created a nation where one may practice freedom of religion. Try practicing your faith in a Muslim nation or in an atheist state like China.
Really? Freedom of conscience? Perhaps doctrinally that is part of Christianity and Catholicism, but in practice?
You give examples of oppressive belief systems in other countries but that exists here too, just in different ways. 'Try practicing your faith in a Muslim nation?'
How about... try getting married in America if you gay? Ooops, can't, Christians who respect freedom of conscience are against that one!
And I did not make up things and attribute them to you- I posed a number of questions, things which could be deduced from things you said- and re-reading my post, they may not have been solely from your argument, but partially from yours and partially from those of others who have posted on this thread. I do apologize if it appeared to be accusations toward you only- the majority of my post was in response to yours, but it is possible that due to the number of people posting and the length of this thread, some things may have unintentionally been pulled in from the arguments of others.
In an effort to not offend anyone and be "diverse" no one's uniqueness is recognized.
We are all commanded to be bland inoffensive people in the name of politically correct ideology/ religion that is forcing its belief on those that care about what matters most to us Christians - faith in Jesus Christ.
There is no "freedom FROM religion" in the constitution but a freedom of religious expression.
Though I think you are going a little overboard with your language ("commanded", "bland") I agree with you. The PC movement is a little nuts and there are far to many people from any and all sides which overreact.
But I have to ask, how is a minimum wage seasonal employee wishing you "Happy Holidays" taking away part of your faith? Is faith not a personal thing? Even if, say, the government said NO expressions of religion may be had, would that compromise your faith? Would you believe a little less if you were not allowed to wear a cross around your neck? I don't know you personally, but based on the responses I've seen you give in this site, I would say no, that's not going to shake your faith.
You're also right there is no freedom FROM religion, but employees of a store saying "Happy Holidays" is hardly restricting freedom of religious expression. Besides, even if the employees are ordered by the organization to say "Happy Holidays", as long as it's a private organization, they can do that. There is no prohibition of celebrating Christmas on your own time, just how the store wants people to be greeted. It's the same as when a store requires staff to say "Welcome to McDonald's how may I help you today?" If you don't like it, you are free to quit.
And sorry, but your "persecution complex" story doesn't apply - that situation is taking place in a foreign land which has no religious freedom. Horrible story, stupid charges, but it does not demonstrate how Christians specifically are being persecuted, especially in the US.
Not at all, I have no desire to take away anyone's freedoms. Christians have the right to protest, to boycott stores, etc just as much as anyone else.
Good. That is all I wanted you to say.
Quote:
For the record though, I think it's petty and childish to rip pages out of medical books, to steal books you don't like the content of and to destroy food you have not purchased as a form of protest. I believe, if those individuals were actually caught for their actions they could be charged for destruction of property or for theft. That's not the Christian way, is it?
Agreed. But there's no proof those things ever happened. Just one person's allegations.
But, are you insinuating that only Christians do childish things?
Really? Freedom of conscience? Perhaps doctrinally that is part of Christianity and Catholicism, but in practice?
Yes. In practice. This nation and many other nations born of Christian values are where you can exercise your freedom of conscience.
Quote:
You give examples of oppressive belief systems in other countries but that exists here too, just in different ways. 'Try practicing your faith in a Muslim nation?'
Not happy here are you? Funny how folks that are unhappy in the US won't leave.
Quote:
How about... try getting married in America if you gay? Ooops, can't, Christians who respect freedom of conscience are against that one!
All freedoms have a limit. The right to be married is limited by the sex of the individuals being married. That is what I believe.
They certainly have the right to protest our beliefs however. Somehow I doubt that one will ever become law. And if it does, I believe it will be the first one overturned by 2/3 majority as is our right.
Quote:
And I did not make up things and attribute them to you- I posed a number of questions, things which could be deduced from things you said- and re-reading my post, they may not have been solely from your argument, but partially from yours and partially from those of others who have posted on this thread. I do apologize if it appeared to be accusations toward you only- the majority of my post was in response to yours, but it is possible that due to the number of people posting and the length of this thread, some things may have unintentionally been pulled in from the arguments of others.
Okay, I wanted more opinions on this. My mom got this email and sent it to me:
I would rather say Happy whatever for each holiday then just say "Happy Holidays"
If people get so offended by saying "Merry Chirstmas" Dont they know that some people get offended if you say Happy Holidays? What do you guys think?
I've enjoyed the reparte' folks. If you address me in any messages, be aware that "Ah'll be bock!...." in ten days.
Not happy here are you? Funny how folks that are unhappy in the US won't leave.
The 'if you don't like it, leave' mentality is not necessarily one I agree with. How about, if you don't like it, change it? If you don't like it, and other people don't like it, work to make it better?
I am happy in America, but that doesn't mean it is perfect- no society ever will be, everyone will have qualms with something- which is why it is our duty to not just sit back and accept the things we dislike about our country and say 'well, it'll never be perfect, so why try?' but instead to do our part to make improvements. Leaving an imperfect country does nothing except appease those who are either too stupid to see the problems or too apathetic to care that problems exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by de maria
All freedoms have a limit. The right to be married is limited by the sex of the individuals being married. That is what I believe.
And that is your belief, based upon Christian morality, which you feel should be imposed upon others who may not share your belief. I don't want to get into this topic here, it's completely unrelated. But evidently just another instance of the imposition of Christian morality upon secular culture.
Agreed. But there's no proof those things ever happened. Just one person's allegations.
But, are you insinuating that only Christians do childish things?
Sincerely,
De Maria
De Maria I think you need to read my sig and my posts a little more carefully. You have twice, in two separate threads taken what I've said and looked at it in a way that I have a negative view or hatred of Christians, or that I wish to take other's rights away. Nothing in my post about protests indicated whatsoever that I felt Christians shouldn't have the same rights as others, so please stop trying to paint me as someone who applies freedoms unequally. I said very clearly in my first post of the things Christians specifically were doing, I never said they shouldn't do them, so for you to ask if I think Christians should not be allowed to protest and then say "That's what I wanted you to say" is ridiculous and pompous. Read more carefully and you will understand the messages instead of reading what you THINK I'm saying and trying to stir up trouble.
You've done it again with "are you insinuating that only Christians do childish things?". Where in my post, in ANY post did I say or indicate that? And passing off the information I passed on about pages being torn from books as "one person's allegations" and there is no "proof" implies you think either 1. I'm a liar or 2. The staff at my county library is full of liars. But you apparently think everyone is "out to get the Christians" so of course this must be made up.
Either way, I no longer wish to discuss things with you, as you are rude and try to provoke people. Consider yourself officially added to my "ignore" list.
Every Who down in Who-ville, the tall and the small,
Was singing! Without any presents at all!
He HADN'T stopped Christmas from coming!
IT CAME!
Somehow or other, it came just the same!
And the Grinch, with his grinch-feet ice-cold in the snow,
Stood puzzling and puzzling: "How could it be so?
It came without ribbons! It came without tags!
"It came without packages, boxes or bags!"
And he puzzled three hours, `till his puzzler was sore.
Then the Grinch thought of something he hadn't before!
"Maybe Christmas," he thought, "doesn't come from a store.
"Maybe Christmas...perhaps...means a little bit more!" -Dr Seuss
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