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Okay, I wanted more opinions on this. My mom got this email and sent it to me:
Quote:
'Twas the month before Christmas when all through our
land, Not a Christian was praying nor taking a stand.
Why the PC Police had taken away,
The reason for Christmas - no one could say.
The children were told by their schools not to sing,
About Shepherds and Wise Men and Angels and things.
It might hurt people's feelings, the
teachers would say December 25th is just a " Holiday".
Yet the shoppers were ready with cash, checks and
credit Pushing folks down to the floor just to get at it!
CDs from Madonna, an X BOX, an I-pod
Something was changing, something quite odd!
Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanzaa In hopes to
sell books by Franken & Fonda.
As Targets are hanging their trees upside down, At
Lowe's the word Christmas - was no where to be found.
At K-Mart and Staples and Penny's and Sears You won't
hear the word Christmas; it won't touch your ears.
Inclusive, sensitive, Di-ver-is-ty
Are words that were used to intimidate me.
Now Daschle, Now Darden, Now Sharpton, Wolf Blitzen On
Boxer, on Rather, on Kerry, on Hillary Clinton !
At the top of the Senate, there arose
such a clatter To eliminate Jesus, in all public matter.
And we spoke not a word, as they took away our faith,
Forbidden to speak, of salvation and grace.
The true Gift of Christmas was exchanged and discarded
The reason for the season, stopped before it started.
So as you celebrate "Winter Break" under your
"DreamTree" Sipping your Starbucks, listen to me.
Choose your words carefully, choose what you say
I would rather say Happy whatever for each holiday then just say "Happy Holidays"
If people get so offended by saying "Merry Chirstmas" Dont they know that some people get offended if you say Happy Holidays? What do you guys think?
Tj3:
I don't worship everyone whom I wish a happy Birthday. Mithra was born of a virgin, on December 25, had 12 followers, one for each house in the Zodiac , institued a Eucharist to be celebrated in his memory, died and was resurrected. If that is not the myth from which Paul extrated his Christ, then the moon is made of green cheese. No one knows when Jesus was born (unless you have found a record of his birth certificate)....could be anywhere (using YOUR scripture as a reference) from 6 b.c.e. to 4 c.e. HIS birthday is one more steal from pagan origins. Worship whom ever you will, but at least KNOW who it is you worship!
1) Jesus was not born on December 25th. The date was chosen as a date to celebrate His birth. The date of His birth is not important to Christians.
2) Historical evidence for Mithraism goes back to approximately 90AD, therefore if one was a copy, it would have to be Mithraism copying from Christianity
3) Mithra was not born of a virgin, the myth is that he was born from a rock.
4) Jesus had thousands of followers (3,000 came to follow Jesus in one day - Acts 2). He had 12 apostles.
5) Mithra did not sacrifice himself, he sacrificed a bull. Without a death, there could be no resurrection.
Ritual meals were held for many reasons and many religions in the middle east at that time, so one more doesn't prove anything. In fact none of these points means anything after you realize that the myth of Mithra is too late to have been a source for the Biblical account of Jesus.
The date of Jesus birth should be of PROFOUND importance to those Christians who claim the Bible is the inerrent, inspired word of God... for the chronlogical 'evidence' found in the Bible is totally contradictroy, making it impossible to determine whether Jesus was born in 6 b.c.e. or 4 c.e.
Mithra (Mitra) and the religon of Mitraism is attested to in both Iranian and Hindu Scripture...including the Rig Veda....making belief in Mithra preceeeding Christianity by more than a Century. (See Canney's "Encyclopedia of Religons"...and refer to the historical writings of S. REINACH. Mithraism has spread to the entire Oriental world during the reign of Alexander the Great...and was introduced into the West in the first half of the First Century c.e "The immense popularity of his worship is attested by the monuments illustrative of it which have been found scattered in profusion thoughout the Roman Empire.
The fact that Mithrism predated Christianity to about 1400 b.c.e., and that Paul was immersed in the Hellenistic millieu where dying and resurrected 'saviours' were a dime-a-dozen, certainly shoots your 90AD theory right out of the historical pond, and shows exactly WHERE Paul came up with the idea for his God/Messiah.
The date of Jesus birth should be of PROFOUND importance to those Christians who claim the Bible is the inerrent, inspired word of God... for the chronlogical 'evidence' found in the Bible is totally contradictroy, making it impossible to determine whether Jesus was born in 6 b.c.e. or 4 c.e.
You were trying to suggest a comparison for the exact day with the myth of Mithra, and the exact date is not important. What is important is that Jesus was born and died for our sins on the cross.
Quote:
Mithra (Mitra) and the religon of Mitraism is attested to in both Iranian and Hindu Scripture...including the Rig Veda....making belief in Mithra preceeeding Christianity by more than a Century. (See Canney's "Encyclopedia of Religons"...and refer to the historical writings of S. REINACH. Mithraism has spread to the entire Oriental world during the reign of Alexander the Great...and was introduced into the West in the first half of the First Century c.e "The immense popularity of his worship is attested by the monuments illustrative of it which have been found scattered in profusion thoughout the Roman Empire.
The fact that Mithrism predated Christianity to about 1400 b.c.e., and that Paul was immersed in the Hellenistic millieu where dying and resurrected 'saviours' were a dime-a-dozen, certainly shoots your 90AD theory right out of the historical pond, and shows exactly WHERE Paul came up with the idea for his God/Messiah.
I could refute your dates, but it does not matter and it is not worth the effort, because not only does history disagree with your claims, but the parallels that you claimed do not exist.
The date of Jesus birth should be of PROFOUND importance to those Christians who claim the Bible is the inerrent, inspired word of God... for the chronlogical 'evidence' found in the Bible is totally contradictroy, making it impossible to determine whether Jesus was born in 6 b.c.e. or 4 c.e.
Mithra (Mitra) and the religon of Mitraism is attested to in both Iranian and Hindu Scripture...including the Rig Veda....making belief in Mithra preceeeding Christianity by more than a Century. (See Canney's "Encyclopedia of Religons"...and refer to the historical writings of S. REINACH. Mithraism has spread to the entire Oriental world during the reign of Alexander the Great...and was introduced into the West in the first half of the First Century c.e "The immense popularity of his worship is attested by the monuments illustrative of it which have been found scattered in profusion thoughout the Roman Empire.
The fact that Mithrism predated Christianity to about 1400 b.c.e., and that Paul was immersed in the Hellenistic millieu where dying and resurrected 'saviours' were a dime-a-dozen, certainly shoots your 90AD theory right out of the historical pond, and shows exactly WHERE Paul came up with the idea for his God/Messiah.
It dosnt matter what day Jesus was born. It's that he WAS born, that is what is important.
While Christmas and the celebration thereof has, in past years, represented the birth of Jesus, our Savior, in today's world it's just a holiday wherein you give gifts to friends, family, etc. thanks much to commercialization.
The Bible is very specific about the 'Holy' days we are to celebrate and "Christmas" is nowhere to be found among that list.
With those thoughts in mind, I don't think saying, "Happy Holidays" or being told "Happy Holidays" is necessarily a bad thing because as Christians (or other) we are not entitled to anything but equality, the pursuit of happiness and religious freedom just like those who may not celebrate what we believe in but are US citizens.
When a Christian (or other) gets so upset about the PCness we are doing the very same as the rest of the groups who carry on and by default we are placing ourselves in the very same 'category' if you will.
Granted, the US was originally puritanical and Christian. Each person who immigrated here back then did so for opportunity and to escape religious persecution. That is why the Constitution allows for religious freedom. Which means, all those immigrating here or those who are already here but choosing other forms of religion are afforded that very same religious freedom without persecution.
The US being the melting pot of diversity that it is and that we have touted for years upon years, we can't much expect that "Christianity and Christians" would remain the majority.
While saying "Merry Christmas" is not persecuting, in my humble opinion, some may feel it is. Thus the PCness of "Happy Holidays" which covers every possibility under the sun, moon and stars.
As a God fearing human, I do not feel the need to say "Merry Christmas" in order to know what I believe, celebrate what I believe and express my joy and wishes for joy to others during this season.
With that said, I wish all Christians a Merry Christmas and to the rest of you, whatever religion you may be, I wish you Happy Holidays.
With respect to records of Jesus birth, that is a non-issue. It would be interesting to ask Aton to produce the records documenting the birth of most historical figures of that timeframe. They also do not exist. Would Aton therefore deny that they were born?
Why do some people try to apply one standard for the evidence of the facts surrounding Jesus, and a dramatically lesser standard for believing that other parts of history are absolute fact?
TJ3--Point to me some evidence NOT in the Bible. The Bible is enough for Christians, but NOT for the rest of us. Also--many of us who have pagan religions had much of our history obliterated with the burning of witches--by Christians!--throughout the centuries.
To everyone else--I hope you had a truly wonderful holiday! I hope the Jews had a terrific Hannukah, and the Christians a wonderful Christmas! To my fellow Pagans--I hope your Solstice/Yule/Saturnalia was as wonderful and profound as mine was! To those who celebrate Ramadan and Kwanzaa--I'm not sure on the dates for those this year, so I hope it was/will be all that you hope!
To everyone, I hope your New Year is filled with health, prosperity, truth, love, and peace!
What I'm tired of is people of other religions complaining about Christian related stuff, including Christmas. Pardon my French, but unless you have the balls to take over the U.S. you don't complain about Christian activities in a dominantly christiam country! Just be thankful we even let you into our country!
And don't be replying and telling me what a racist pig I am, because I know my views are controversial, they always are. Again, that's what you get for coming into a controversial country!
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