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Okay, I wanted more opinions on this. My mom got this email and sent it to me:
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'Twas the month before Christmas when all through our
land, Not a Christian was praying nor taking a stand.
Why the PC Police had taken away,
The reason for Christmas - no one could say.
The children were told by their schools not to sing,
About Shepherds and Wise Men and Angels and things.
It might hurt people's feelings, the
teachers would say December 25th is just a " Holiday".
Yet the shoppers were ready with cash, checks and
credit Pushing folks down to the floor just to get at it!
CDs from Madonna, an X BOX, an I-pod
Something was changing, something quite odd!
Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanzaa In hopes to
sell books by Franken & Fonda.
As Targets are hanging their trees upside down, At
Lowe's the word Christmas - was no where to be found.
At K-Mart and Staples and Penny's and Sears You won't
hear the word Christmas; it won't touch your ears.
Inclusive, sensitive, Di-ver-is-ty
Are words that were used to intimidate me.
Now Daschle, Now Darden, Now Sharpton, Wolf Blitzen On
Boxer, on Rather, on Kerry, on Hillary Clinton !
At the top of the Senate, there arose
such a clatter To eliminate Jesus, in all public matter.
And we spoke not a word, as they took away our faith,
Forbidden to speak, of salvation and grace.
The true Gift of Christmas was exchanged and discarded
The reason for the season, stopped before it started.
So as you celebrate "Winter Break" under your
"DreamTree" Sipping your Starbucks, listen to me.
Choose your words carefully, choose what you say
I would rather say Happy whatever for each holiday then just say "Happy Holidays"
If people get so offended by saying "Merry Chirstmas" Dont they know that some people get offended if you say Happy Holidays? What do you guys think?
Although I said I would no longer respond to you, you asked for clarification, which I will gladly provide. You accused me of anti-Christian bigotry and cite my ‘admission’ of such bigotry when I made the following statement:
"Anti-christian bigotry or a generalization based on observation and interaction?"
Correct.
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That is not an admission to an anti-christian bigotry. It is a statement indicating that my experiences with Christians have provided me with the perspective I now have
That is bigotry. You are generalizing based upon your limited knowledge.
Let me give you an example. When slave owners owned African slaves, they called them lazy because slaves were reluctant to work for nothing and disliked being whipped when they inadvertently did something wrong. Slave owners were bigotted because they made a generalization based on their limited knowledge of African people.
In the same way, you come to the Christianity forum and attack Christianity and Christians in every way and when Christians defend themselves, why according to you, they're cndescending, self-righteous and paranoid. You have made a bigotted statement based on your limited knowledge.
Now, I could see if we or especially I, had gone to your atheist or whatever forum and started harrassing you. But I didn't.
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I hold nothing against the Christian religion itself- and I respect and admire many Christians who are respectful of others and lack the self-righteous edge that you so proudly display.
In other words, as long as Christians listen to you quietly, you don't mind them being around. But as soon as Christian defend their beliefs, why they're self righteous and rude.
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So, if you want to know where you are twisting things, there's example number one. And, as for this quote:
It was a rhetorical question. I had highlighted to those who may be following this discussion that I had not twisted your words as you made it appear. In fact, you are the one constantly portraying yourself as being victimized.
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margog85 agrees: Apparently, it is the Christian way. To be condescending, self-righteous, and always see the ways they are 'victimized' by society.
This is simply a comment I had made in response to the way the Christians, particularly you, have conducted themselves in this discussion.
I believe I have conducted myself admirably. Unlike you, I don't make up words and put them in anyone's mouth. I have simply responded to your exact words.
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This is an example of taking things out of context and twisting them as you see fit to make yourself look better and me look like a disrespectful bigot-
No, its an example of your portraying yourself as a victim.
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meanwhile, my entire argument throughout this thread is advocating respect for all religions at this time of year by wishing a generic Happy Holidays if you just don’t know what the other person celebrates.
And my entire argument is that everyone can vote with their dollars. But somehow you've twisted that into disrespect of all religions except Christianity?
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Why is that such a terrible thing to stand for?
And I could ask you the same thing. Why is it such a terrible thing to stand for Christianity?
Hey lady, you can stand for whatever you want. Just don't expect me to agree if it is an anti-Christian stance.
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Inclusion
Oh, I see. You want Christians to say, "Oh no, you're right and we're right and everyone is right." Nope. There is such a thing as truth. If you believe you have the truth, then by all means, stand up for it. But Christ is the real Truth and thats who I stand up for.
When you understand these words, you'll have no more trouble with Christians:
Matthew 12
23 He that is not with me, is against me; and he that gathereth not with me, scattereth.
Matthew 10
38 And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me.
I follow Jesus. I don't care if anyone excludes me from anything else and I don't want to be included in anything that is anti-Christian.
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and respect are apparently not values you hold in very high esteem.
On the contrary. I respect people enough to read their messages and respond to what they actually say. Unlike you.
I hate to burst your bubble but most people celebrate Christmas not because of Jesus but because of Santa and gifts for children.
If 76%+ of americans are Christains i hate to burst your bubble that they are celebrating Jesus' birth; the traditional outward expresion is giving gifts, santa, christmas lights tree e.t.c (love it!) and FYI..lol Santa is "St Nicholas" a christian Saint so next time you take your kids to see him, remember the implication.
That history has been completely lost. To wit: most cities have a santa Claus parade, not a Jesus parade. The santa in the mall never has any religious overtones. The celebration of Jesus' birth does indeed happen in the churches but that's about it, what happens outside of there is linked to the commercial aspect and is done for the children.
Just to make this clear, I have no hatred towards Christians. I, like anyone else, become irritated by self-righteous, arrogant, and condescending individuals, regardless of their religious beliefs. Based on experience, I tend to find that the majority of people I’ve encountered who embody those traits also identify as Christian- and many of the posts within this discussion have simply reinforced that and provided more examples of nasty, sarcastic, and self-righteous Christians who refuse to consider an alternate perspective.
That is not hatred or bigotry or bitterness- I have nothing against Christmas and I do not hate Christians- You can celebrate your holiday all you like- my point is, not everyone needs to recognize your holiday specifically when there are other people celebrating other holidays at this time- How can you expect a store associate to know from a brief encounter that you are a Christian and you are celebrating Christmas? Rather than make the assumption and exclude others, ‘Happy Holdiays’ is more suitable- just a general wishing of a pleasant season and enjoyment in your celebration of whichever holiday you choose to celebrate- why that is such an issue makes no sense to me.
So i just dont get it, if christians are really self righteous, arrogant, and condescending individuals then why are you on the Christian domain of the cite. Why dont you spend more time on the other hundred of topics out there on this site. Why come and judge and harass Christians about what they beleive? We dont have any problems with people celebrating there own religions but the reason why christmas is more prominent is because it hold the largest majority of poeple & in a democracy majority rules. It just like if i decided to go live in a predominantly Muslim country, i am not going to take offence when they celebrate their holidays and put up icons that represent thier beliefs. I am not going to start demanding that they consider that i am christian and have them show as much prominance for my religion to make it "fair". If you live in America you have to come to terms with the fact that it is a predominantly Christian society and if that really bothers you, there are plenty of other countries that are more dominantly athiestic, or budist of Jewish or Muslim etc So people should go where they are comfortable. I know if i grew up in country that was mostly muslim i would not like it there, i know i would migrate somewhere else. So i am tiered of people whining about Christians and attcking them constantly in this country.
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Christmas is the best time of the year? Really? Better than Easter, then? Aren’t both equally important to Christians? The incarnation of God in human flesh and blood, an individual who is equally human and divine… and then His death and resurrection for the atonement of sin and reconciliation of man and God?
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But hey… maybe to some Christians, Christmas is ‘better’. Not many people exchange Easter presents, right? And if the perks of this holiday outweigh the perks of Easter (just a day off, no decorations or presents) then I guess it’s better and more important, hmm?
It is obviously the biggest Christian celebration because it marks the Birth of our savior and everything else that follows is equally important.
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Ummm… okay, well, if you didn’t know this, then I hate to break it to you, but there are other religious and cultural celebrations at this time of year as well- not everyone is celebrating only Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years and nothing else. For example: Hannukah (Jewish), Bodhi Day (Buddhist), Eid-al-Adha (Muslim), Kwanza (African-American), Yule (Pagan)…. So the controversy isn’t for ‘nothing’- unless you consider others’ religious beliefs to be insignificant. Is that the case?
Umm.. okey Like i said all these people are can celebrate their holidays, but should not take offence to Christmas being the most prominant because most these groups individaully represent a fraction of a percentage of the US population.
That history has been completely lost. To wit: most cities have a santa Claus parade, not a Jesus parade. The santa in the mall never has any religious overtones. The celebration of Jesus' birth does indeed happen in the churches but that's about it, what happens outside of there is linked to the commercial aspect and is done for the children.
Like i said, think about the implication of santa "St Nic". You have convinced yourself that Santa has no Christian overtones so that you can include yourself and your kids in the Chrismas celebration without feeling like a complete hypocryt. So if pretending santa has no Christian over tones helps you feel better about enjoying the perks of Christmas then good for you. HO HO HO Merry CHRIST-mas
Sounds like wishful thinking. All you have to do is watch the Peanuts Christmas cartoon and Linus will explain to you the reason for Christmas.
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To wit: most cities have a santa Claus parade, not a Jesus parade.
Most cities. But in every city, Christians pray and sing joyous songs explaining the reason for our joy. In fact, much of what we do in our celebrations is in our churches. I'm sure you'll find a reason to object to that as well.
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The santa in the mall never has any religious overtones.
Never is a very strong word. The very word "Santa" means Saint. In fact, Santa Clause is derivative of Saint Nicholas, a canonized Saint of the Catholic Church. His very presence in a Red Suit and Camauro Hat signifies that he was a Bishop of the Catholic Church in his life.
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The celebration of Jesus' birth does indeed happen in the churches but that's about it, what happens outside of there is linked to the commercial aspect and is done for the children.
Not so. Note the Christmas decorations at this major department store. Many of which include religious icons: JCPenney department
Like i said, think about the implication of santa "St Nic". You have convinced yourself that Santa has no Christian overtones so that you can include yourself and your kids in the Chrismas celebration without feeling like a complete hypocryt. So if pretending santa has no Christian over tones helps you feel better about enjoying the perks of Christmas then good for you. HO HO HO Merry CHRIST-mas
Actually you have it the wrong way around. I and my family fully know from the onset that there is no link to religion at all with the Santa thing, how could they, they've never been exposed to it. But many a religious christian celebrates Christmas the same way I do - now that where the hypocrisy comes in.
Actually you have it the wrong way around. I and my family fully know from the onset that there is no link to religion at all with the Santa thing, how could they, they've never been exposed to it. But many a religious christian celebrates Christmas the same way I do - now that where the hypocrisy comes in.
Correction You and your family WISH from the onset there is no link to religion with Santa thing...lol are you serious right now. You may not have told your children the underlying implication of what they are doing. So just because you choose deliberate concealment and misrepresentation of the true meaning behind perks of christmas does not mean it does not exist. You have adapted to doing the things that were traditionally created to celebrate the Birth of a God you dont beleive in, so you are the hypocryt and your kids will find out sooner or later what the underlying reason is. I sure hope you dont have an angel or a star on top of your Christmas tree because that actually represents the Star of Bethleham that led the wise men to Jesus. And when you tell your kids santa got them gifts just remember, that is a Christian tradition that was derived from St Nicholas a catholic saint who brought gifts for poor children on Christmas. So if you are true athiest you really should not participate in Christmas light, trees gift giving, Santa e.t.c because all you are doing is sending mixed messages to your children.
Here, let me help you a bit, here is the definition of hypocrite:
1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings
I am doing neither since I'm not putting on any false appearances of religion nor am I acting in contradiction of my stated beliefs.
I can put an angel at the top of my tree or hit my thumb and yell out "Jesus Christ!" and neither is related to religion. Weird huh? You seem to believe that your belief is the basis for every Christmas ritual. Celebrating the winter solstice has been going on since before there even was such a thing as christianity: Solstice a Cause for Celebration Since Ancient Times
" Many more people observe the solstice while participating in modern holidays—even if they do not always realize the connection.... "As the Christmas celebration moved west," Yeide said "the date that had traditionally been used to celebrate the winter solstice became sort of available for conversion to the observance of Christmas. In the Western church, the December date became the date for Christmas."
Traditional solstice celebrations existed in many cultures. The Roman feast of Saturnalia, honoring the God Saturn, was a weeklong December feast that included the observance of the winter solstice. Romans also celebrated the lengthening of days following the solstice by paying homage to Mithra—an ancient Persian god of light. "
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