my view on this subject is that there is a god, if you disagree then lets discuss what you think...the second question is if there is a God, whos God is the right God...and please dont say that everyones god is the right one, because that statement is contradiction itself.

Capuchin

This isn't a religious forum, it's a forum for discussing religion.

lobrobster

Oh, Sassy. PLEASE don't tell me you think that evolution is a hoax! I can respect much of what you've said in this thread (whether I agree or not). The fact is, no one understands 'first cause' yet, so you're certainly entitled to your beliefs about it. But there's no excuse for making such an ignorant comment about the Theory of Evolution. The evidence that the Theory of Evolution is true is overwhelming!! Tell me... How old do you think the earth is Sassy?

I briefly read another of your posts where you try to downplay ToE, because it's just a theory. Scientific theories are strong. They are not in any way like my 'theory' that if I leave 5 minutes later for work, my drive time will be shorter because I run into less trafic. Science doesn't use the word theory like the common populace does. When science proposes a theory, it means it is the 'best' explanation we have. ToE is most definitely the best explanation of how complicated organisms came to be. Evolution is a FACT like gravity is a FACT. Please don't fool yourself or worse, try to fool others. It's a tragedy that so many people (mostly Americans) are totally ignorant about evolution and what scientific theories actually mean.

sassyT

[quote]Evidence for evolution is overwhelmingly missing is what you should say. If man really evolve from an ape, then where are all those half man/half ape fossils which should be abundant in the earth's soil layers? They don't exist.
Furthermore, if we evolved from a lower species, then why is it that the apes didn't evolve in the evolutionary process? Come on lobrobster you don't need a PHD (post hole digger) to figure this out.

Evolutionists even admit to the lack of fossil evidence to prove the their THEORY and yet people still blindly follow the myth in the name of "scientific progress" I am even amazed at the at the convoluted and contradictory claptrap that often passes as science.

Here is what scientist have admitted about evidence for evolution:

Dr. David Kitts, professor of geology at the University of Oklahoma said, "Evolution requires intermediate forms between species and paleontology does not provide them...."

Even Stephen J. Gould of Harvard admitted, "The fossil record with its abrupt transitions offers no support for gradual change."


Famous fossil expert, Niles Eldredge confessed, "...geologists have found rock layers of all divisions of the last 500 million years and no transitional forms were contained in them." Dr. Eldredge further said, "...no one has yet found any evidence of such transitional creatures."

So show me fossil evidence for evolution and i will believe in it. If you believe it as truth despite a lack of evidence then it is by faith that you believe. Evolutionist do not KNOW of man's origins. They can only make assumptions, speculate, theorise and hypothesise.

I know of a scienitist who has been is offering $250K to anyone who can prove evolution beyond a shodow of a doubt. Its been 6 years and no one has been able to do so. So if you think you have 100% evidence for evolution, i will be happy to give you the site where you can submit the proof.



The age of the earth is unknowable. If YOU believe it is billions of years old it is by faith because carbon dating uses a number of unvarifiable assuptions as a premise making it subject to inaccuracy.

Like i said, dont just make empty claims. If you say evolution is fact like gravity prove it to me beyond a shodow of a doubt. I want 100% evidence to qualify evolution as a fact. Otherwise your claims are nothing but declarations of faith.

Capuchin

Really, we're resorting to quote mining now?

retsoksirhc

[quote=sassyT]Everything you just said...I could say the same about the THEORY of creationism. Where is the proof?

sassyT

[quote=retsoksirhc]
I am not the one who is claiming FACT here.

I believe creationism makes a more logical conclution given the complexity and intricacy of the universe. There is more evidence for a inteligent designer than there is for a big explosion that came from no where and magically bacame the vast and complex universe we see today. it just sounds like a bunch of hocus pocus to me.
Despite my strong beliefs i am not going to claim it is Fact. So i would appreciate it if those who believe in evolution were to be reasonable enough to admit the same.

sassyT

Darwin

Attached Images

 

templelane

Sassy there are tons of transitional fossils, click the link below for a brief summary. Go to your local natural history museum if you want to see them yourself.

Transitional Vertebrate Fossils FAQ

Here is a link explaining what a transitional fossil is so we don't have to rehash a similar what is a scientific theory argument except for tranitional fossil.
Transitional fossil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please don't use that tired old argument. Say God put transitional fossils in the relevent order of the rocks to test our faith if you want.

michealb

I am interested in hearing what Christians/ thiests believe. I've said many times that it is important for me as an athiest to know what is going on in the heads of the majority. What I said about you is that your not interested in learning anything because no matter how many times your told that your using the wrong definitions for something you still come back with the wrong definition. If you continue to use the wrong definition for a word and use the wrong definition as part of your answer. What am I to think other than you have an agenda?

My reasoning doesn't have to be like God's. If a being is perfect all must think so otherwise he isn't perfect. That is the problem with perfection. You have to resort to logic and logic would state that everything a perfect designer designs has to be perfect otherwise he isn't perfect. Even if the system was perfect at one point if it breaks down to a point where it is not longer perfect it means that the design wasn't perfect regardless of whose fault it is that the system broke down because a perfect designer would have foreseen the breakdown so regardless of whose logic you use an imperfect design means an imperfect designer or in this case no designer. Also I can't give you a factual argument when talking about something that doesn't exist.
[quote]
First of all there is no solid evidence for evolution. Where are all those half man/half ape fossils which should be abundant in the earth's soil layers? They don't exist.
[quote]

Really?!? Homo habilis, Homo rudolfensis, Homo georgicus, Homo ergaster, Homo erectus, Homo cepranensis, Homo antecessor, Homo heidelbergensis, Homo rhodesiensis, Homo neanderthalensis, Homo floresiensis, and Homo sapiens idaltu to name a few transitional fossils. Fossils are never abundant. Why would you think that? If every creature that died formed a fossil you would be right but fossils take a very specific circumstances to form. You know that fossils aren't actually the bones of the animal but are minerals from the ground that slowly replaced the bones. This doesn't happen to the majority of the animals that die because they didn't die in a location that allows it. Disproving evolution should be very easy if it was wrong all it would take would be to find one fossil out of place in the soil layers but every fossil found has supported evolution. I have millions of fossils that support my point of view where is one that supports yours?

retsoksirhc

[quote=sassyT]Nor was I.

Like you, I also haven't claimed anything as fact.

Some (most) creationists use the bible as absolute proof of the existance of god and creationism, even though (most) atheists disagree.
Some (most) evolutionists use evolution and scientific study as proof of the existance of evolution, even though (most) creationists disagree.

The fact of the matter is that THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS. Individually, one opinion on a help desk site really isn't going to matter.

I've got an idea...how about everyone stop trying to "win" this argument. It's been going on for centuries. I'm pretty sure a series of bits on a server somewhere isn't going to end it.

Can we get back to the original post?