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A discussion (please stay friendly)

Asked Nov 3, 2011, 09:40 PM — 47 Answers
So. I wish to have this discussion. And i feel this is the best place/site to do it as we have many different faiths and views here.

many of you already know. I struggle with my 'religion'. do not take that to mean i struggle with my FAITH. I love God with all my heart. I treasure him and there is no one I love more. And the same goes for Jesus Christ, sent by God, our wonderful man who taught us so much of God.
However, I grew up Christian, spent a great deal of adulthood (or what adult hood i have had so far lol) in a catholic church. And recently over the last 2 years, have learned a great deal about Islam and in fact even have gone to see the local Imam several times, and love Islam very much. I still struggle with just where i belong, (what church/denomination/religion/ect)
but i never struggle with my faith and love for God and Christ.


Now, my discussion...
I do not, nor have I ever even as a child, believed that Christ was GOD. He was sent BY God, born of a virgin because GOD wanted it so. But Christ is NOT God. He is his SON.
(in fact it is this belief that led me to Islam in the first place)
But i am not Jehovah witness nor Mormon. They also believe that Jesus is not god, but both these religions believe things that i do not. (do you see how frustrating this is for me lol. not ONE religion fits me perfectly. Maybe i should make a new one! )

I am not here to push this belief on anyone. I am here to get other views. I want to know what others think of my logic behind this. And see how others feel about it. And find out if anyone else feels the same way.

The reasons i believe this are...(in order of importance)

First, the most important, it goes against the commandments. the FIRST commandment. You shall not have any other Gods before me. GOD IS THE ONLY GOD. NO one else.

Second, If Jesus is God, why did God say he sent Jesus to us? why did he not say 'I came to you in human form to guide you and teach you'
Not once did God say 'I came as human to you' And Jesus always said 'i was sent by my father'

next, Jesus never said he was God. I know people claim this is not true, because of the first verse in John, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
So...I find it hard to believe that Jesus is now a word. or The word. or several words. Gods words, is just that. His words. He spoke them. And they came to be. We are ALL his word. He spoke the word and brought light. Spoke the word and brought Life. We are ALL his words. Not JUST Christ.

Next. Jesus did NOT have Godly Powers. Nor was he infallible. In fact, Jesus was far from perfect. Sinless does not equal perfect and Godly. Jesus dint know that a fig tree didnt have any fruit because it was not the season for it. He didnt know who touched him in one of his healings. Most important, Jesus did not/does not know when the last day will be. GOD knows EVERYTHING. Jesus did not. (this is NOT a knock at him)

Jesus is not perfect in the fact that he must eat. He must sleep. He must use the bathroom. He must wash. Ect. God does not need to do these things.

Jesus was tempted by the devil. I dont believe the Devil would tempt GOD.





I think i have lost my train of thought here. lol. So lets leave it at this. And if anything else comes to mind, ill just post about it

remember, keep it friendly and respectful of ALL who choose to answer

47 Answers
DoulaLC's Avatar
DoulaLC Posts: 8,463, Reputation: 8041
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#41

Dec 5, 2011, 03:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenniepepsi View Post

gosh this is so hard. maybe i should take a break from all the 'church' worries, and just focus on God directly for a while. im sure he wont mind :P
There you go.... Focus on that relationship.....at some point, perhaps through people you meet, an advertisement, something you read in the paper, etc., you may find other churches that you would like to visit.

You can be committed to God without having to be committed to a church.
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firmbeliever Posts: 2,958, Reputation: 2358
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#42

Dec 5, 2011, 04:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by califdadof3 View Post
I have to ask this as its something I do not understand and since we are discussing rules of the muslim faith. How is it that so many lives are taken in the name of Allah and why is it that it appears (to me) that women are not a more prominent figure in the muslim lifestyle?

To me in celebrating Allah (or God) then it seems you would want to celebrate life and all its parts to honor Allah.

Can you help me make sense and understand this thinking?

As a woman and a believer I dont think I am oppressed or less than a man. Islam has different roles fo the men and women.

We as women don't have an obligation to look after our brothers,sisters,mothers, husbands,children financially whereas the men has this responsibility of taking care of his sisters, brothers,mothers, wives, children etc.
This means he has to work and earn, women do not have to earn,but if we want we can and what we earn is ours alone. That is just one of the differences between men and women in Islam.

Those who kill innocent people,will have their due punishment in the Hereafter.


.
classyT's Avatar
classyT Posts: 1,390, Reputation: 1001
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#43

Dec 5, 2011, 06:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post

I still don't quite get "rightly divide." To me, that's a negative connotation. There has to be a better way to say that. I've been hanging out with church people since before I was born, and had never heard that phrase until you used it.
The Apostle Paul instructed us to rightly divide it. Certainly I didn't coin the phrase! It was just that little ol apostle that was given the awesome responsibility to write most of the NT. The one that got direct revelation from the resurrected Lord himself. The ONLY apostle that was given the gospel of Grace to preach to the Gentile world. OUR apostle. SO... it isn't negative at ALL. It is proper and the only way to really understand the Bible. It is about context, dividing who it is written directly to as well as who wrote it. Grace writing verses the Law. The gospel of the Kingdom vs Paul's gospel of Grace. Peter and the 12 didn't fully understand Paul's gospel. This is why Peter called Paul's writings hard to understand. This is why you don't get the same terminology in Peter, James, Jude and John. Thus the instructions to" rightly divide the word of truth". just sayin

Jennie,

didn't mean to hijack but wanted to explain myself to WG. The deal is, Christianity isn't a religion. It is a relationship with the creator. It isn't about rules, regulations or being good and working to get God's approval. The Father is completely satisfied with the Lord Jesus and his work on the cross. When we accept him as our savior and the ONLY way to the Father we become just as if we had never sinned in God's eyes. Just as God poured out his wrath on Jesus Christ and he became SIN for us, ( although he never sinned) we become PERFECT in Christ, although we sin. It is the greatest exchange. Jesus became sin and took the punishment meant for us, we get perfection. What a deal. Why would anyone want to go backwards and pick up a religion?
Wondergirl's Avatar
Wondergirl Posts: 31,894, Reputation: 24408
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#44

Dec 5, 2011, 06:40 AM


Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT View Post
The Apostle Paul instructed us to rightly divide it.
But St. Paul wrote those words to St. Timothy specifically, not to the congregation in general.
classyT's Avatar
classyT Posts: 1,390, Reputation: 1001
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#45

Dec 5, 2011, 08:00 AM
WG.

LOL...you make me laugh when you argue this stuff. ha ha ha. Okie dokie... Timmy was the only one that needed to rightly divide the word of truth! My bad.

Paul instructed Timothy concerning the Chruch. Timothy also taught the Church. Paul instructed him how the assembly or Church should run. It is a book written to Timothy but it was written for the Church as well. AND so I feel I can totally say Paul was speaking directly to ME when he said these words to Timothy :

However, avoid pointless discussions... 2 Timothy 2:16

Again, Jennie..sorry for the hijack. WG and I do this frequently. We usually agree to disagree.
cdad's Avatar
cdad Posts: 11,115, Reputation: 6615
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#46

Dec 5, 2011, 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by firmbeliever View Post
As a woman and a believer I dont think I am oppressed or less than a man. Islam has different roles fo the men and women.


This means he has to work and earn, women do not have to earn,but if we want we can and what we earn is ours alone. That is just one of the differences between men and women in Islam.

.
Ok I had never heard that before about being allowed. Which brings me to my next question. Isnt it written somewhere that the woman must ask for permission even when just leaving the house for errands?

Im not trying to pick things apart nor pick on you. Im just wondering where the dividing lines are.
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jenniepepsi Posts: 4,020, Reputation: 2741
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#47

Dec 5, 2011, 09:58 AM
No worries classy talk about whatever you like in this discussion!

Calif, I think (firmbeliever correct me if i am wrong) you may be confusing Islam with the culture of middle east countries. they are very different.
cdad's Avatar
cdad Posts: 11,115, Reputation: 6615
Internet Research Expert
 
#48

Dec 5, 2011, 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenniepepsi View Post
No worries classy talk about whatever you like in this discussion!

Calif, I think (firmbeliever correct me if i am wrong) you may be confusing Islam with the culture of middle east countries. they are very different.
No jenny they aren't. That is what most people think also.

Ref:

The Rules for Muslim Women | eHow.com

Women in Islam

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