Question
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Mar 19, 2008, 08:45 AM
|  | Expert | | Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: On the outside
Posts: 9,307
| | | Is this a Christian nation or NOT Hello Christians:
We have a nice argument going on about Obamas pastor. Most people think he's a separatist. I dunno that he's not.....
But my questions are about YOU. Does YOUR church teach that America is a Christian nation? Certainly, my experience on these boards tell me that it’s not an unpopular belief among Christians. Do you believe it? If you don't, and you hear it in church, do you say anything about it? Do you stay in that church? If your church doesn't teach that, do you know of other churches that do? What do you do about that?
Do you think that the belief that America is a Christian nation is a belief that divides us, or brings us together? Do you care?
excon | | | | | | |
Answers
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Mar 20, 2008, 06:40 PM
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#61
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 756
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by ScottGem Not in the least. None of what you said comes close to challenging the point. | Not only challenging but demolishing. You insinuated that this country was not founded on Christian principles: What Christian principles? I'm not arguing with you (yet). But I'm wondering what Christain principles are specifically in the Constitution or that it was based on.
Then you admitted that the principles are Judeo-CHRISTIAN: Thanks, you fell right into my trap. I don't deny any of the things you cite, but I maintain these are not solely "Christian" principles, but rather judeo-christian principles.
I nor anyone here ever claimed they were "solely" Christian principles. Most Christians that I know understand that Christianity came from Judaism and that, in fact, salvation is from the Jews (John 4:22). Quote: |
People still refer to Christian principles not Judeo-Christian prinicples. The omission tells the story.
| Correct. And what is that story? That Christians founded this nation on principles which they believed. The principles taught by Jesus Christ. Quote: |
No, there were no Jews in the Continental Congress because your "all men are created equal" Christian founding fathers didn't think they were equal enough.
| Did I claim the founding Fathers had no flaws? Do you claim that you have no flaws? If the answer to these questions is, no, then what is the point?
The only thing I can gather is that you have admitted in that statement that the founding Fathers were Christian. Wonderful! But that has little to do with the fact that this country is founded on Christian principles by Christian Founding Fathers. Two facts you have already admitted.
Sincerely,
De Maria | |
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Mar 20, 2008, 06:42 PM
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#62
| | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 756
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by tomder55 for a matter of historical accuracy the Answer is yes ;there were American colonial Jews who fought in the Revolution. Here is a little known fact ;the 1st person in Philadelphia to sign the non-importation agreement in reaction to the Stamp Act was a man named Mathais Bush;a Jew .He was President of the Mikve Israel Congregation .
The Jewish population of the colonies was split as were the rest of the colonies over support for the war .But the Jewish population was largely supportive. In one of the first major battles ;Bunker Hill ,Aaron Solomon stood in the front ranks . Francis Salvador of South Carolina was the first Jew killed in the war. Many more Jews fought and sacrificed for American independence.
It is noteworthy to consider that a major arms supply network was established on Dutch St. Eustatius island by Jewish arms traders. A British fleet under Admiral Sir George Rodney was sent to destroy the supply base at about the same time that Lord Cornwallis began his retreat to Yorktown. Had the fleet not been otherwise occupied it is possible that Cornwallis could've been resupplied . As it turned out a weakened British fleet trying to resupply Cornwallis was defeated by French Admiral Degrasse. The battel of Yorktown was lost and Cornwallis surrendered .
So yes ,Jews did have a small but major contribution to American Independence.
Also of note ; at least 5000 African Americans fought for the colonials. | Good to know. Thanks for the info. | |
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Mar 20, 2008, 06:46 PM
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#63
| | Ultra Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,735
| All this is very interesting, but let's just sum it up because excon sees lurking Christians behind every cherry tree: "American by birth, Southern by the grace of God." | |
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Mar 20, 2008, 06:52 PM
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#64
| | Ultra Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Online
Posts: 6,278
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by George_1950 All this is very interesting, but let's just sum it up because excon sees lurking Christians behind every cherry tree: "American by birth, Southern by the grace of God." | Another example of american divisiveness.
______________________________
proud to be Canadian | |
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Mar 20, 2008, 06:58 PM
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#65
| | Ultra Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,735
| Thanks, NK: you folks used to be our 51st state, but I guess you are about 52nd now. I've read all this stuff about slavery and De Maria seems to be winning because there is no prohibition of slavery in the Bible that I am aware of. I mean, argue the Golden Rule if you can't think of anything else. But all is not lost: we can research the Abolitionist movement and find plenty of ammunition, and some will come from Scripture; it's just that I'm not that conversant with it. After all is said and done, excon can rest easy because it appears that John Locke and the Enlightenment are the progenitors of the U.S., and not the Bible. | |
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Mar 20, 2008, 07:05 PM
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#66
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Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: LI, NY - USA
Posts: 25,482
Pay to call ScottGem for advice ($.75/min) | You haven't demolished anything, not even close. You just dance around the point I'm trying to make without addressing it.
If I say a building is built of steel, that doesn't tell the while story, because the building probably also is built of concrete and other materials. So to say the US was founded on Christian principles doesn't tell the whole story either. But if you insist that the US is a Christian nation, denigrates all the other elements that went into its formation. | |
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Mar 21, 2008, 02:41 AM
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#68
| | Ultra Member
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New York
Posts: 1,648
| Saph
The founders ;or most of them were active members of Christian denominations ;many were deists and stillactive members of their church .That is about the most irrelevent point in this debate. Thefact is that none of them had a notion that they were founding a "Christian nation" . Honestly ,I think the biggest concern of the colonist were changes in the rules of commerce initiated by the Brits in an attempt to pay for their very expensive war against the French;that had directly benifited the colonists . Had King George not been such an the issues were resolvable. Many of his reactions were punitive and that helped tip the balance of the hearts and minds of the populace in favor of revolution (barely : the populace was pretty much divided between "patriots" ,"tories" and fence sitters)
Scott and George are right ; the influence of the Enlightenment on the founders was the philosophy behind the Revolution. | |
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Mar 21, 2008, 07:33 AM
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#70
| | Expert
Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: On the outside
Posts: 9,307
| Hello again:
Thanks George. But, you're preachin to the choir. We're not a Christian nation. I wasn't interested in a discussion about whether we ARE or not. That's been established.
I'm more interested in what people like Da Maria think ABOUT their belief. I don’t care about the belief itself. I'm NOT interested in WHY Da Maria believes it. I could care less.
My questions are of a social nature rather than a religious nature. But, I've said this before, and nobody seems to get it. They'd rather lay some bible on me......
So, I wonder if you people can’t figure out what I’m asking, how can you figure out what Rev. Wright is asking?
excon | |
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