[samfulcher]

This will make me unpopular, but the pastor thing is a lame excuse. Come on, it's like saying my Mom won't let me go out and play tonight... and I'm in my thirties!

If he wants to play games, I suggest you play them as well. Let it for a couple of days (it's the weekend, do something for and by yourself). If he doesn't call you, great. If he does, let him leave a few messages. DO NOT return them.

Mid-next week, call him with a very positive mind and apologize for not returning his messages. OR call and say you want to thank him for something he did and you would like to do it in person. Your positive attitude will get him wondering what's up. He WILL call back and/or he will agree to see you -- he will want to know what is making you so positive when just this week, you've been pleading desperately with him. See where I'm going?

Anyway, instead of ranting, I'll just say that if he wants to play games with this "pastor excuse," you should play them too. You WILL win this one, girl ;)

Sam

[talaniman]

Don't play games, with anyone! It only leads to more drama, and confusion!

[starbuck8]

This will make me unpopular, but the pastor thing is a lame excuse. Come on, it's like saying my Mom won't let me go out and play tonight... and I'm in my thirties!

If he wants to play games, I suggest you play them as well. Let it for a couple of days (it's the weekend, do something for and by yourself). If he doesn't call you, great. If he does, let him leave a few messages. DO NOT return them.

Mid-next week, call him with a very positive mind and apologize for not returning his messages. OR call and say you want to thank him for something he did and you would like to do it in person. Your positive attitude will get him wondering what's up. He WILL call back and/or he will agree to see you -- he will want to know what is making you so positive when just this week, you've been pleading desperately with him. See where I'm going?

Anyway, instead of ranting, I'll just say that if he wants to play games with this "pastor excuse," you should play them too. You WILL win this one, girl ;)

Sam

Yes, I for one see where you are going! So what you are saying is that she should pursue him even at the cost of her safety? Have you not read through the other posts? Why the game playing Sam? Is that how you do it on your website? What is there to gain from using underhanded means to trick someone to have them come back?

I will be certain to write down that web address, and remember it. If this is the kind of things you endorse, then spend more time on your own site. I just may go there myself come to think of it. Is this all about winning to you, no matter what the cost? I am genuinely concerned for her safety, are you? Or are you just trying to get more visitors to your site?!

[Homegirl 50]

Games are for children. If this guy is playing games, let him play by himself.
You behave as an adult and leave him alone.

[samfulcher]

Ouch. I knew my post wouldn't be positive, but wow, Homegirl and starbuck8... what's up? I will provide rationale for my position, but I see that my presence here is unwelcome so I won't waste anyone else's time by posting unwelcome feedback (yes, I'll stick to my promise).

VC mentioned in posting #7 that the new man is special to her, not just any man. Why do you think it is that he uses a conversation with a pastor as a reason to stop talking to her? Do you really think a pastor would step in the way of any two people's happiness? They haven't slept together, they are just hanging out.

Yes, there is the mention of love in posting #13, and it is this mention of feelings that seems to have led to the conversation with the pastor in the first place... another sign that this special man is playing a game.

(Now, I use "game playing" loosely, but let's face it. Human interaction is a lot about posturing. You are doing it here with your venomous response to my post. We do it with our partners all of the time whether we acknowledge it on the surface or not. And it is my opinion that this new man is doing it with VC. Whether it is right or wrong, it is a fact of human behavior; we play these posturing games. We must live with it and adapt to it -- that does not mean we have to love it and embrace it, but we do it whether weare consciously aware of it or not).

With this premise in mind, then, is my suggestion really underhanded and a "trick"? You will say it is, and I will say it isn't for the simple fact that when people are distraught and feel unanswered (see VC's post #9), we often do not think clearly. We often cling to desperation, we often lack the objectivity of logic needed to confrot the most basic of problems, let alone those involving someone about whom we care. And it is this type of behavior that turns away people -- we fall in love with strength, confidence, happiness. We shy away (romantically) from people who come begging and pleading (which is another topic for another dissertation, but I would be happy to discuss it off-line if you prefer).

So please forgive me if my attempt to sound upbeat and to provide down-to-earth advice to someone who feels unanswered in her relationship with a man who treats were much, much better than her swindling, aggressive ex, insulted you. It really was not my intention and your message to me has been quite clear. I guess no advice is better than good advice that offends some.

Keep in mind, however, the fragile state of mind that folks like VC are experiencing when you offer your own advice. Keep in mind that any loss (relationships, death, etc.) generally progresses through several emotional stages -- denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. If you want to accelerate this process, that is up to you. But don't decide for people whether they have "lost" something when neither you nor I can determine what is and what is not lost in a relationship -- only folks like VC can determine that.

Best,
Sam

PS You are more than welcome to visit my site, my columns, my articles, whatever else you might find on this public domain we call the internet. But since I didn't publish it in my post, I wonder why you felt the need to bring it up at all. If I were really pushing it (instead of trying to offer objective advice), would it not make sense that I mention the site and nothing else? Your call on that...

[Homegirl 50]

I can see why a pastor would tell him to leave her alone, she is still married. She seeems to be jumping from one relationship and right into another one. If his intentions are good, he should lave alone give her time to heal.
If he is just yanking her chain, all the more reason to back off and leave him alone.

She should step back from this relationship and let time and space make the picture clearer for her.
Sounds like this guy has his own set of problems and that is more reason to just back away. When someone tells you to leave them alone, or give them space, it is best to do it.

JMHO

[Homegirl 50]

I think this guy has problems and you are coming from an abusive marriage. This is not a mix for a relationship. He is a guy who has been a knight in shining armour so to speak, but that does not mean that either of you are ready for a relationship at this time.
Take a breather from him, give him his space. You can use the space as well.

[7Arwen]

The Ex - I met him in church and knew him 2 1/2 years before wedding - no problem until wedding day. He was a former minister himself so was surprised when I found out he did porn, was demanding, controlling, and married me for assets, etc....tried to make the best of it and stuck with him through major heart surgery. Yes, I should have gotten the annulment before, but I didn't expect I would meet someone else soon and I was trying to make it work and exhaust every avenue before the annulment.

I am not ready to just trash the other guy because I respect, admire, and love him and things only went bad when the Pastor talked to him. He is a quality person and my question is how to remedy that situation and how to re-start a dialog with him - - - that's where I feel I was unanswered. No one made suggestions about that.

Hope this helps.

you're right. Its not fair that everyone explodes and gets impatient with you when even your HEADLINE states the specific question you want answered (although I agree with their sound advice- take it into consideration). Why is everyone answering the background info. Instead of answering the question? Evasive. =/ However, I agree with their sound advice- take it into consideration. So u just want to talk to him again? How do u get him 2 talk to you again? Don't talk to him. Let him miss you. Give him time. Don' date foe awhile, figure out who you are, and when he calls you again, tell him you're too busy w/ some responsibilities (other than guys- no guys for a while). He'll see that you're independent, and admire you for it. But do these things in a genuine spirit. Throw yourself into that dance class. Be diligent.
You'll be fine.
God Bless.

[7Arwen]

Mmmm...it has come to my mind that, perhaps this is why he's been alone for so many years. Or maybe he just likes pursuit, not a relationship.

And he said divorce #1 was she was so homesick for parents in another state and she was killing him with her cooking (rich, delicious, fattening foods) and she wouldn't sleep with him anymore after children were born - fear of pregnancy; PMS, abuse to him

#2 ran up $85K in credit card debt in 4 months, moved to another bedroom after a couple of weeks and went out with daughter every night

Maybe his stories are not accurate - they don't seem to be the normal divorce stories like cheating, finances, gay, etc.

whoa, whoa, whoa!
this guy's crazy! Get out of that. No, actually, you know what? You shouldn't even want him back. There's always 2 sides to a story, so I'm sure that ex wife of his didn't just randomly start plaguing him. If he calls you, let it alone. Answer, and tell him your busy. Just busy.
And as for Sam fulcher or whatever, give the guy a break. He probably didn't read pg. 2. I commented before reading all the pages- just the last 2 on pg. 1.
You should be the one avoiding him . How do you get him to talk to you again? Don't.

[starbuck8]

No one said you were unwelcome Sam. What bothered me was on the very first thread you replied to, you mentioned your website, and it seemed like you were only here to recruit. Those of us that have been around for awhile here notice those things.

My concerns for her, mainly started in post #15. VC was starting to realize inconsistancies in some of his conversations with her. Then there was the mention of abuse, and the fact that he talks badly about two previous marriages, and hasn't been able to sustain a relationship for a long time.

I go with my gut, and my gut very seldom steers me in the wrong direction. I don't think this man is good for her. I understand that she loves him. Well I have loved people too. It didn't mean it was good or safe for me.

I don't think these games that you are advocating are in any way good for a healthy, honest, trustworthy, respectful, long term relationship. Especially when this mans' personal report card doesn't give him glowing accolades, in regards to his past relationships.

I do take the advice I give here very seriously. I don't just randomly tell someone to leave or let go. I care about the people that ask for help here. I don't just get off the computer and forget about them either. I may care too much sometimes, for someone that I don't even know. But, I will speak up and tell someone when I think the advice given is detrimental to their well being, and this is the sense I get in this particular case.

The good thing about this site, one of the best ones around I might add, is that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and you are welcome to agree or disagree, as long as the site rules are followed.

Do things get heated sometimes? Yes! Do the rules get broken once in awhile? Yes! Do I follow them to the letter? Maybe not sometimes. I am not here to amuse myself. I'm here to try and help, and sometimes I get frustrated when advice is given that is not right for a particular situation.

With that said, I will continue to try and help out people who need it, and you can decide whether to return or not. Makes no difference to me. Just know that if I think you are totally off base, that I will disagree.

[VCatherine]

Hi again. I got a little lost here... it was my ex that was scary and abusive. He had a whole secret life - secret porn, secret cell phone, secret emailing women, secret dating sites, etc. but, the public him is quite charming and like the other poster's ex, the neighbors all love him - people who don't know him really well.

The new one said his ex had PMS really bad and was abusive to him - are you saying that he's lying and, he not she, is the abusive one? I did not find this one to be abusive so far, but I know he has a lot of pressure caring for his elderly Mom and getting up with her at night and not getting enough sleep, etc. I do admire his care for her. Thought perhaps he was overwhelmed when the bad thing happened.

I made a big mistake by not getting the annulment when the wedding day and night went bad - now I'm paying the price. It never was a marriage. He wanted only my assets. Never dreamed I'd meet someone so soon after the separation and annulment filing. So now get criticized for being married, not admired for trying to make it right and work it out - again, I should have walked away on day one then I wouldn't be in this dilema.

This was just me thinking and wondering out loud (may not be true): "Mmmm... it has come to my mind that, perhaps this is why he's been alone for so many years. Or maybe he just likes pursuit, not a relationship. And he said divorce #1 was she was so homesick for parents in another state and she was killing him with her cooking (rich, delicious, fattening foods) and she wouldn't sleep with him anymore after children were born - fear of pregnancy; PMS, abuse to him. #2 ran up $85K in credit card debt in 4 months, moved to another bedroom after a couple of weeks and went out with daughter every night. Maybe his stories are not accurate - they don't seem to be the normal divorce stories like cheating, finances, gay, etc."

Oh, well, I may never know the truth about it... unless he decides to tell me.

I want to especially thank those of you who understood, were sensitive to my feelings, patient, and tried sincerely to help... bless you.

[talaniman]

An annulment, or divorce, is seldom the end of our problems, and you would be well served to let the healing process run its course and take it slow and let yourself learn to love yourself enough to be patient.

Going from one relationship to another is seldom a solution, and you can be vulnerable, and jump, at what may look good, and attractive, but is not. We all need friends and the support of others, but they must be true friends, and everyone has baggage to deal with.

With men and relationships and dating, caution, and discretion, before giving your heart, and only after paying attention, and knowing them a long time. Then you'll know if the talk matches the action.

Never play games. Leave that to the players, and there are many out there waiting for the inexperienced. Don't go there.

[Homegirl 50]

You don't know this man anymore than you knew your husband.
You need to be very careful, take your time, go through a healing process.
This guy may be a good one and a keeper, he may not be, but you need to step back as he has and is asking you too. Maybe you both need to just "Take a break"