Check out some similar questions!

ladycolby1979 · Sep 25, 2008, 10:01 AM

Land contract started June 1992. $1500 down, $24,000 left to pay, 10% interest, $300/month. It has been 16 years so we asked for an itemization of all payments and the seller keeps giving us the run around. It has been months now and they just keep saying call next week, we are busy. They also stopped paying the insurance 2 years ago so we've been paying that on top of the monthly bill even though it was in the contract that the seller would pay all insurance and taxes. Now the state has sent us a bill for taxes that were due in 2006 that the seller never paid.
We just want to know how much they think we owe so we can buy it outright or if we have actually paid it off and they won't sign over the title. So my question is, if we ask for the itemization (not sure of the legal word for that) of all payments how long do they have to provide it? How long do we wait before actually contacting an attorney? If they haven't been paying taxes and insurance shouldn't the whole payment go towards interest and principle, not escrow?
Thanks for the help ;o)

ScottGem · Sep 25, 2008, 10:20 AM

I did an amortization of $2400 at 10% interest with a $300/month payment and the loan should have been paid off in 10 years.

If you have Excel, you can get an amortization schedule template from microsoft.com to do this for you. If not, go into your bank and ask if they can show you one.

Your contract should have specified for how long the payments were to be made. It should not have been open ended.

I would stop paying immediately and see an attorney. Sounds like they owe you a heap of money as well as a deed.

ladycolby1979 · Sep 25, 2008, 10:29 AM

The contract states "until payed in full". I will use the excel schedule, but without the itemization, we don't know how much went to "escrow" or just into their pockets.

Fr_Chuck · Sep 25, 2008, 10:53 AM

I would also RUN to the court house and be sure there is not a mortgage on the home under the sellers name.

ScottGem · Sep 25, 2008, 11:07 AM

Escrow is a payment additional to principla and interest, that is used to pay insurance and property taxes. If the contract stated that the seller was responsible for insurance and taxes, then there would be no escrow amount.

Even if you were required to pay into an escrow account to cover taxes and insurance, the seller needed to give you an annual statement of the amount being paid to escrow.

Like I said, take an amortization schedule to your attorney. I think this guy owes you over $20K (6 years at $3600/yr)

excon · Sep 25, 2008, 11:08 AM

Hello lady:

There are dozens of amortization schedules on line. Just Google the word and plug in your numbers.

See, the thing is, if the loan amortized, then a certain amount went to principal every month and a certain amount went to interest, so that the loan would end on X day. They apparently, didn't do that.

Like Scott said, they owe you a bundle - PLUS the deed... In addition, from what you've said, I mirror the Padre's fear. They certainly MIGHT have a mortgage that they haven't been paying either.

You need a real estate attorney, and you need him TODAY!!

excon

rockinmommy · Sep 25, 2008, 11:09 AM

At this point I would HIGHLY recommend retaining a real estate attorney.

Since they are being uncooperative I wouldn't attempt to deal with them directly any more. It sounds like they are not upholding their end of the contract, so you'll need someone to help you enforce it. If you plan to pay the note off, you'll want an attorney involved anyway, to make sure everything is filed correctly.

ScottGem · Sep 25, 2008, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by ladycolby1979

The contract states "until payed in full".

Also, I'm surprised you agreed to a contract so open ended. Generally a contract for deed doesn't cite an interest rate, just the amount and number of payments. But even if it does cite an interest rate, there has to be a number of payments setup.

Originally Posted by rockinmommy

If you plan to pay the note off,

But the note WAS paid off! About 6 years ago. Assuming they paid the $300/mth, each month, the $24K should have been paid off after 10 years. Yet they continued to pay for 6 more years.

ladycolby1979 · Sep 25, 2008, 12:57 PM

My parents entered into it. They are so trusting of those that they considered friends (seller). Now they are in a hardship and I have been helping them with bills and this came up, that's why I am stepping in to get this taken care of. I just didn't know the specifics of land contracts, I've only ever dealt with mortgage companies. I wish I could spout some law (it has to be out there somewhere)to the seller to get them to give us the amortization schedule. Do the sellers have to keep track of everything like a bank does?

Fr_Chuck · Sep 25, 2008, 01:24 PM

Yes, in all of the land contracts I have done, and it is a lot, I only had one that actually showed an interest rate. Since on most while set on a interest rate, they state a number of payments for so many months. No early payoff discount and the such.

But most likley the seller has no idea of how to show this on paper, and was not keeping track, or now, they found they should have given the deed long ago and did not. Or worst, they have it mortaged so heavy they can't pay it off and give you a deed.

Fr_Chuck · Sep 25, 2008, 01:26 PM

But as noted, they don't have to provide you, you print one out, and send it to them and show them it is paid in full. But right now, you need to do some research and hire an attorney.

ladycolby1979 · Sep 25, 2008, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

I would also RUN to the court house and be sure there is not a mortage on the home under the sellers name.

How do we do this? How would the county court know if there is a mortgage? At least my mom has kept every copy of the receipts, that will help me a lot in my investigation.

I appreciate everyone's advice on this, I am at my wits end. And your advice has been a great boost, knowing that we ARE in the right. Thanks again!!

rockinmommy · Sep 25, 2008, 02:25 PM

Honestly, your first step at this point needs to be contacting an attorney. Since you guys have NO idea what you're doing (NO offense intended) you don't want to waste any more time or do anything to jeopardize the (what appears to be) very strong case you have against these people.

For your reference, each county keeps records on properties. When deeds are transferred it's recorded, when liens are filed against a property it's recorded. Where I live it's in the Records department of the County Clerk. You can go down (some are on the internet) and look at all the files either digitally, or on micro-fiche. I suppose in some places everything is still paper files?? When you find documents you want they will make copies for you.

I think it would be a great idea for you to research that. But like I said, I cannot urge you strongly enough to retain an attorney immediately. If you have a chance to get some research done prior to meeting with the attorney, great, take all of that along.

ScottGem · Sep 25, 2008, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by ladycolby1979

I wish I could spout some law (it has to be out there somewhere)to the seller to get them to give us the amortization schedule. Do the sellers have to keep track of everything like a bank does?

You don't need specific statutes. Everything should be spelled out in the contract. And yes the seller in a contract for sale, needs to keep track of payments just like a bank does.

Nor do you need an amortization schedule from the seller. Amortization schedules are standard. You can get a schedule in lots of places as noted. All you have to do is show a) the principal balance financed, b) the interest rate and c) the monthly payment. You then need to show the payments made on the contract. If your parents made all the payments on time, then they paid off the contract sometime in 2002. If they have continued paying after that, then they have overpaid. If the sellers continued to accept payments they committed a fraud and might be subject to criminal charges. At the very least, if you can show that the payments were made on time, then you can sue them for the overage. Since the amount is over most small claims courts, you will probably have to sue in civil court. You will sue for the overage paid as well as interest on that overage.