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Our family owns a lake property on a private lake, which is governed by an association. The land that my father purchased in 1991 is not now nor ever has been part of this association. Over the last few years that association has been creating new regulations on the lake that everyone is supposed to abide by but has never been forced to do so until this year. This year before being given our boat stickers, which show the patrol that we are property owners, we must sign an agreement. The agreement states that we must abide by all regulations, we are responsible for any of our guests behaviors, we must pay all fines against either us or our guests, and finally we must agree to allow the lake patrol the right to board and search our vessel whenever they deem it appropriate to maintain our boating "privileges." First of all, being that we are not part of the association, must we abide by any of these rules. Secondly, isn't there some kind of violation of rights involved here. I feel like this association is continually getting bolder in violating our rights every year.
I think a lot of this depends on who owns the lake. If it is owned by the association, then you have really only two options: follow their rules or not use the lake. You would be using it as a guest, and the owner can put any restrictions that he wants on what guests can do.
Frankly, I think you are over-reacting to some extent. As I've said, except for the issue of boarding (which, admittedly is a major issue and an anethma to me), the other regs seem designed only to protect the peace and quiet of the lake.
The issue of the guy adding on to his house, maybe the changes he was making would affect the ecological and aesthetic nature of the community. There are two sides to every story. From where I sit, I see the association trying to protect the character of the community and pleasure of using the lake. How would you feel if you were out on the lake peacefully fishing and a party boat whizzed by making a lot of noise, throwing beer cans in the water, etc. Wouldn't you want the boat owner held responsible for the actions of his guests?
Two thoughts come to mind. I would consider contacting a Constitutional Law professor at the nearest law school. Ask if they would be willing to write a letter to the association stating their opinion on the constitutionality of boarding regulation. Maybe that will put a scare into the association. Or you can contact the ACLU. They LOVE to get involved when constitutional rights are being curtailed.
All I can say is Thank the Good Lord I live in Canada where our rights & freedom's are respected. My family has been cottaging for 100 years. I have been part of our lake association for 25 years. I have never heard of anything that so violates a person's rights and freedoms, but then again I live in the True North-Strong & Free. I have asked my parents & grandparents about this post and all shook their heads laughing at how anyone could be so unreasonable or feel that they have the right to control others. Associations are there to set guidelines, not laws. If I were you Erbusch I would get the hell off of that lake and cottage somewhere where your neighbours respect your rights. As for the gated community example I used, again in Canada, the only people who are allowed ot patrol and hand out tickets is the cops. I wouldn't stop for a private security guard. How do you know they just didn't slap on a security hat!
I have asked my parents & grandparents about this post and all shook their heads laughing at how anyone could be so unreasonable or feel that they have the right to control others.
I'm curious as to what you feel is so unreasonable? Or where there is actually controlling going on.
Clearly the issue of boarding someone's boat is way over the top. But other than that, what's so unreasonable? Is it unreasonable that you should be responsible for the actions of your guests? It is controlling to not allow you to use private property if you don't agree to assume such responsibility? I don't think so. I would feel more comfortable in a community that I know cares about the rights of its members.
As we informed in the last post the regulations regarding protection of the lake are in no way a problem. We completely understand and respect those decisions. However, as we also said their use of force...requiring all land owners, association members or not, to sign over their civil liberties and rights in order to obtain the right to use the water on which our land sits...is unacceptable to us. Essentially what is happening at the lake is that wealthy individuals are obtaining property and becoming board members in the last few years. These people are now trying to create restrictions that do not necessary benefit anyone and in essence take away some of our god given rights. The issue currently at hand is an issue however is not the main issue here. The main issue here is this is just the beginning. If we continue to allow this type of behavior from this association where is it going to end. What is difficult is that the association is not afraid to take anyone to court whether they will win or lose. The before mentioned case involving the main adding to his home is a good example. The association was informed prior to the case that they could not possibly win. They then turned and fired that attorney who informed them of this, hired three more, and when to court where the supreme court ruled against them. They are now continuing to pursuit this guess...and who do you think is paying for it. We are, through our annual dues which increased this year because of it. It is simply sickening. Thank you again though, we appreciate the responses. Any suggestion is helpful.
First, other than the issue of boarding, I don't see any signing away of civil liberties. Second, if you object to the changes in the association, run for the board. If you think the board is being too restricitve, get other property owners together and file a class action. There are laws that can be used to reign in an over the top HOA.
As for the other owner, tell him to sue the HOA for mailicious prosecution. If he can get an affadavits from the first lawyer and then show they continued to harass, he may be able to get his attorney costs back.
As we informed in the last post the regulations regarding protection of the lake are in no way a problem. We completely understand and respect those decisions. However, as we also said their use of force...requiring all land owners, association members or not, to sign over their civil liberties and rights in order to obtain the right to use the water on which our land sits...is unacceptable to us. Essentially what is happening at the lake is that wealthy individuals are obtaining property and becoming board members in the last few years. These people are now trying to create restrictions that do not necessary benefit anyone and in essence take away some of our god given rights. The issue currently at hand is an issue however is not the main issue here. The main issue here is this is just the beginning. If we continue to allow this type of behavior from this association where is it going to end. What is difficult is that the association is not afraid to take anyone to court whether they will win or lose. The before mentioned case involving the main adding to his home is a good example. The association was informed prior to the case that they could not possibly win. They then turned and fired that attorney who informed them of this, hired three more, and when to court where the supreme court ruled against them. They are now continuing to pursuit this guess...and who do you think is paying for it. We are, through our annual dues which increased this year because of it. It is simply sickening. Thank you again though, we appreciate the responses. Any suggestion is helpful.
Sounds like 99% of all condo boards -
I see no choice here for you other than legal action. Maybe it's a civil liberties question and an Attorney can get involved for a reduced fee on that basis.
I see no other "out" - I think the info and advice which have been posted are sound.
What I feel is so unreasonable is that the association is taking the place of the police. Why is it this man's responsibility to pay any fines that his guests might encur? For what would one get a fine? Who decides who gets fined & what if there is a disagreement as to the guilt or innocence of one's actions? This is what police and laws are in place for. This association sounds like a bunch of vigilantes.
As for private security guards anywhere, gated community, lake, whatever. Up here they are in place pretty much to scare away the unwanteds OR call the POLICE if there is an actual problem. They do not ticket, arrest, anything outside of an extreme event. After all they are only armed with a flashlight!
Anyways it is clear that not many on this post agree with me. All I know is that up here, no one owns the lake, and no one can set the rules. People can agree to guidelines, but voluntarily. To force someone to either sign something they disagree with, or take away their freedom to enjoy their property within the scope of the LAW is just ludacris. Especially when these "association rules" did not exist when the land was purchased.
Scott, the answers to your question are yes and yes, unless the laws are being broken in which case call the POLICE. Not your lake association president. It is not up to us to police each other, and doing so will lead down bad roads.
What I feel is so unreasonable is that the association is taking the place of the police. Why is it this man's responsibility to pay any fines that his guests might encur? For what would one get a fine? Who decides who gets fined & what if there is a disagreement as to the guilt or innocence of one's actions? This is what police and laws are in place for. This association sounds like a bunch of vigilantes.
As for private security guards anywhere, gated community, lake, whatever. Up here they are in place pretty much to scare away the unwanteds OR call the POLICE if there is an actual problem. They do not ticket, arrest, anything outside of an extreme event. After all they are only armed with a flashlight!
Anyways it is clear that not many on this post agree with me. All I know is that up here, no one owns the lake, and no one can set the rules. People can agree to guidelines, but voluntarily. To force someone to either sign something they disagree with, or take away their freedom to enjoy their property within the scope of the LAW is just ludacris. Especially when these "association rules" did not exist when the land was purchased.
Scott, the answers to your question are yes and yes, unless the laws are being broken in which case call the POLICE. Not your lake association president. It is not up to us to police each other, and doing so will lead down bad roads.
That's my 2 cents.
You did understand that this is a privately-owned lake, right? This is not Lake Erie, Lake Ontario, Lake Huron, wherever you are. This is a privately-owned lake. No one is walking into her house and turning off her TV (or whatever).
The OP's enjoyment of her property is not being taken away - her enjoyment of the private lake may or may not be taken away. Two different things.
Buzzing around on a private lake is NOT a right, it's a privilege.
What I feel is so unreasonable is that the association is taking the place of the police.
Scott, the answers to your question are yes and yes, unless the laws are being broken in which case call the POLICE. Not your lake association president. It is not up to us to police each other, and doing so will lead down bad roads.
That's my 2 cents.
The Police have their limitations. That's why private communities employ private security. This is not uncommon, at least in the states. There is nothing wrong in that. And I see nothing wrong in a host being responsiblke for his guests.
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