[sincere852000]

Ok my car will start and run fine sometimes but, then I will go to start the car and it won't start;when I atempt to start it the gauges will jump all over the place and there will be a ticking noise that isn't the starter. Its not turning over or even cranking, just that ticking noise. I took it to honda because the check light goes on and off and they only found a vtec solenoid code. Honda also check the alternator and battery to address the starting problem but everything came back normal. Now that check light comes on occasionally but the car still starts; I don't know if that is connected to the starting problem. I believe the solenoid code is due to a clogged vtec solenoid screen which I was going to clean today but the starting problem came back. After about 30-45 minutes the car will up like normal again. All the lights are bright and will work so I don't thinks it's the battery. When I turn the key to the on position I hear the fuel pump but the check light will not go off in two seconds, instead it stays on for some time and begins to blink, and then goes off. Also as I was going over some of the other posts, I read one by shepardgarrett about his car acting weird: gauges jumping around and the abs light coming on and then the radio shutting on and off; about a month ago those exact things happen with my car and of course this was followed by the car not starting. I didn't see a solution for his problem so I posted this question. Any help is appreciated, I truly don't have a clue on what's causing this.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

1. Read sections A and B, in the link below:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...ics-46563.html

You may have a problem with your ECM, so be sure and run the K-Test. My instinct is that the problem could be your ECM--intermittent failure.
2. Check all under-hood and under-dash fuses, according to section X, in the link above.
3. Attach a scan tool to the Data Link Connector and check for codes.
4. Have the distributorless ignition coils tested.
5. The ticking sound could be the starter solenoid (relay). Ensure the battery is fully charged and that the battery terminals and cable connections are clean. Read section T, in the above link.
6. Make sure you have fresh NGK spark plugs installed.

[sincere852000]

Well I will have to wait to the morning to get a code scanner but have you ever heard of the vibrating gauges, abs light on and off, and radio on and off that I mentioned shepardgarrett also experienced.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

No, what are vibrating gauges? The ABS light coming on and off and your CEL coming on and off could both be related to a developing problem with your ECM.

I believe the ECM on your year Civic performs the ignition control module functions, that igniters performed on older Civics, in addition to regular engine and ABS control functions. In other words, it controls a whole lot of items on your car. ECMs almost always control grounding (power) to relays (e.g. PGM-FI main relays) that could cause items to come on and go off. ECMs are giant "power transistors." If they don't provide the proper voltage to various sensors, be they engine or ABS related, check lights will come on.

Let me know what the results are from the 3 basic diagnostic questions and the K-Test.

[sincere852000]

When I said the gauges were vibrating I didn't clarify. All the gauge cluster needles will vibrate up and down rapidly and there a load ticking noise when I atempt to start the car. As for the k- test I also will have to wait until the morning to get the correct equipment to perform the test.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

It almost sounds like the ECM is sending erratic voltages to the sensors/gauges. Could the ticking sound be a clicking sound from relays acting bizarrely? Relays can almost buzz and chatter sometimes, when the computer-controlled relay gounding terminal is being affected by an ECM that's not functioning properly. Yes, I think the odds are very high that your ECM is bad. Look into buying a Cardone remanufactured ECM, with a lifetime warranty, from O'Reilly Auto Parts. It will cost 1/3 what Honda wants for a new ECM, which will only have a 1 year warranty. They are easy to install--just remember to disconnect the negative battery terminal first.

[sincere852000]

I honest couldn't say if it's a relay because its louder than the tick I'm used to hearing from relays but I'm no expert so anything is possible. I was hoping when I sent to Honda they would have been able to get a code for this problem not the vtec but since it starts fine most of the time, when I got to them, it ran fine. The weird things is that codes are still stored in the ecm even if the check goes off. So if there was a code for the starting problem wouldn't it have shown up. Unless this problem isn't triggering any of the sensors.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

ECMs are reset any time the negative battery terminal is disconnected for 10 seconds or the 7.5 A BACKUP fuse, in the under-hood fuse/relay box, is removed for 10 seconds.

When my ECM was failing, it never threw a code. In fact, most times they never throw a code. Typically, they throw codes when sensors are out of whack but not when they are out of whack. Many people think ECMs are more reliable than they really are. This includes many mechanics. They are misdiagnosed all the time. I have seen many ECMs be replaced at AskMeHelpDesk.com. People are naturally reluctant to suspect the car's computer, since they are so expensive. They typically focus on everything else first.

[sincere852000]

That's possible because when it wouldn't start I took off the battery cables and cleaned the terminals but the check light did come on after that. Which could have just been the vtec solenoid, that's why that was the only thing that showed up. But because of the erratic behavior, I'm beginning to think it is the ECM. How common do ECMs go bad?

[sincere852000]

How did your car react when your ECM failed?

[TxGreaseMonkey]

I have seen several dozen over the last 6 months. One person PM me tonight and said that I was right and the major problems he was having with his Civic were solved when he replaced the ECM. He ran the K-Test and it showed no voltage at all at first. Then, when he inserted his test probe in the reference wire socket again, his meter recorded 5 volts. Then he ran the confirming test at the ECM itself and it recorded no voltage at all. Again, this is the intermittant and frustrating behavior they demonstrate, when they are failing. I have helped numerous people identify their ECM as the culprit from the K-Test--from England to the U.S. to the Philippines.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

My reaction was denial, because people like Tegger said the odds of an ECM being bad was practically zero. In the face of such comments I stayed with it and saw that their statements were completely false and very misleading. Since then, I have tried to help as many people as possible diagnose these "catastrophic" problems with their cars. These are working people whose lives are severely impacted by this sort of problem. They can't afford to throw money around and pay the outrageous prices charged by many dealers to solve these type of problems.

I honestly believe I was GIVEN this problem to solve, so I could help others. I came to AskMeHelpDesk.com looking for help with this problem. Instead, I solved the problem on my own and stayed, in order to help others. This was a truly huge problem for me to initially solve. All of the steps I laid out in the "Sticky" are to help the ordinary guy solve these serious ignition problems on their own.

[sincere852000]

Do you know how available 01 ex civic Ecms are here in California? I know obd 1 Ecms are everywhere. When I swapped my 96 civic I converted back to obd1 because I had so many problems with the obd2a ECM, and this 01 civic seems like it has even more sensors.

[sincere852000]

That's another problem I have, the nearest Honda dealership is about 100 miles away and they charge 90 dollars an hour to diagnose.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Yes, I know. That's why I enjoy helping people with these problems so much. That's why I'm so excited over the K-Test. It has saved people at this site many thousands of dollars. Honda wants a ton of money to diagnose and $850+labor to install a new ECM. Who can afford to spend that kind of money on an older car?

[sincere852000]

This is probrably the last things I'm going to try to find the problem, and after this its back to the dealer. Hopefully they can tell me more then it's the vtec solenoid. On the k test when you mention the "cleaned main ECM ground on the thermostat housing" is that located were the end of the radiator hose connects to the motor.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

You are right about availability. I checked with RockAuto.com and they don't carry a replacement ECM for your Civic. You may have to send your ECM in for remanufacture, if it proves to be bad. An Englishman I helped, since Christmas, had to do just that because of the immobiliser (anti-theft device) on his English Civic. You couldn't install some other ECM in its place. He finally bought a multimeter, ran the K-Test, and saw that his ECM was bad. [His mechanic initially sold him a whole new distributor, which didn't solve his problem.] He reinstalled his remanufactured ECM and his car ran perfectly. This was an individual not accustomed to working on his car.

[sincere852000]

That reminds me of another question. Could the immobilizer or a after-market alarm cause this problem because when I scanned the car it said it was an immobilizer to pcm error but since the car still started at that time I dismissed it because it was a generic code and that's why I sent it to Honda were they got the vtec solenoid code.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Yes, the main ECM ground is on the thermostat housing, which attaches to the radiator hose on the top of the engine.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

I don't know enough to answer your question about immobilisers and ECMs.