Lt. Gen Douglas Lute, President Bush's new military adviser, said yesterday that because of frequent tours of duty for US soldiers in Iraq and Afghan, it is worth considering a return to the military draft.

I saw some stats within the week that stated that a majority of soldiers in Iraq have been there *since the beginning* of the war and occupation.

How do you feel a military draft would play with American citizens? How would it effect the election of 11-08 other than completely destroying the Republican Party? Would the White House, with Bush in it, be burned to the ground by disgusted citizens?

I don't think Bush would sign on for a return to the military draft which was discontinued in 1973.

I think the Republicans are hoping a Democrat takes over the White House in 1-2009 so Republicans can blame the Democrats for losing the Iraq War which Bush lost by mismanagement, thereby saving the Republican Party.

What do you think??

iamgrowler

Surely you must have seen this coming, Babs; Would you care to support your assertion with a citation of fact?

Seriously, if you're going to make the assertion, then you should support it with facts.

Dark_crow

What can be asserted by ETWolverine with-out evidence is fine, but not by BABRAM; what’s the matter with this picture.

Nevertheless, his reply was unanswered by me because it is moot to my assertion.

iamgrowler

Laziness, actually.

Who has time to wade through every post in the thread?

If Wolfy made an assertion and didn't back it up with a citation -- Then hammer him until he does.

Dark_crow

OK, I can relate to that.

ETWolverine

Let's see:

Rep. Marylyn Musgrave (R-CO)
Rep. Joe Wilson (R- SC)
Sen. Kit Bond (R-MO)
Rep. Todd Akin (R-MO)
Sen. Tim Johnson (D-SD)
Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA)
Rep. Ed Schrock (R-VA)
Rep. John Kline (R-MN)
Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA)

The above politicians per FoxNews.com and other publicly available information, currently have or had children in the military, mostly serving in Iraq or Afghanistan.

That's 9 of 535 members of Congress, or roughly 2%, who have children in the military. Several of them have multiple children in the military. I believe that the total number of Congressional children in the military is 14, which brings the number to roughly 2.6%.

The US military is made up of approximately 1.4 million, per various DOD manpower records. There are roughly 300 million Americans per the national census bureau. Thus the percentage of people with children in the military is roughly 0.6%, rough guesstimate.

Thus the percentage of congressional kids serving in the military is more than twice the percentage of the general population.

I had said, off the top of my head, that the numbers were 4% and 2%. They are actually 2.6% and 0.6%. Sorry for the mixup in the numbers. I was working off of memory rather than going back to the source information.

Is that sufficient citation? If not, let me know.

Elliot

Dark_crow

Darn-it Elliot you just don’t get it…the offhanded remark, not a constructed argument, I made pertained to the elite in this country, not just elected offices of Congress.

ETWolverine

DC,

I don't see what it is that is disturbing you.

You made the assertion that I had given data about politicians with children in the military without a citation. So I cited the information.

Now you are arguing that you meant "all elites", not just politicians. Sorry, that isn't true either.

The Center for Data Analysis at the Heritage Foundation released a report in November 2005 called "Who Bears the Burden? Demographic Characteristics of the U.S. Military Recruits Before and After 9/11". This report shows that the number of recruits that are from the richest quintile of the population are actually 22% of the total recruit population as of 2003. Here is the income demographic information:

-------------------1999 recruits-------------2003 recruits------General Pop
Poorest quintile------------18%--------------------15%------------20%
Quintile 2------------------21%--------------------20%------------20%
Quintile 3------------------21%--------------------21%------------20%
Quintile 4------------------21%--------------------23%------------20%
Richest quintile-------------19%--------------------22%------------20%

And in terms of actual family incomes:

$0-$29.375-----------------18%------------------15%--------------20%
$29,382-$35,462------------21%------------------20%--------------20%
$35,462-$41,685------------21%------------------21%--------------20%
$41,688-$52,068------------21%------------------23%--------------20%
$52,071-$200,000-----------19%------------------22%--------------20%

So, as you can see, the "elite" (defined by me as the "top 20% of the nation in annual earnings") of this country still represent military recruitment in excess of their actual percentage of the population.

So... the percentage children of national-level politicians in the military is higher than the general population, and the highest income families are also "overrepresented" in the military.

So where does the idea that the "elites" aren't represented in the military come from?

Elliot

Dark_crow

$52,071-$200,000-----------19%------------------22%--------------20%

You miss the essence, with your statistics. You mistake the Entente for the elite, what a joke-they are who support the elite. And those figures do not represent the ones dying and fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq either. I can't help but wonder how many of those went to combat assignments and how mant to the Diplomatic Corp.

BABRAM

You have a valid point. The last stats I read were in 2005 that there were 5 legislators...4 being Republican and 1 being Democrat that had children at that time that were currently serving in Iraq. I don't know that the percentage is exactly 1/10 of a percent, but it has to be very low. Maybe 1/4 of a percent at best?! Since then I recognize the possibility the number could be up. Elliot's original stats were based on percentages of those serving in the military in general. My post was an addendum to those specifically serving in Iraq. Another issue would be what exactly those few are permitted to do in their military occupations of service.



Bobby

ETWolverine

DC, This is a typical "the statistics don't really say what they say" argument. If you have evidence that the information is incorrect, please present it. So far, I have only your opinion that the "elites" are under-represented in the US military, which is contradicted by the statistics I have given you. If you have information that says otherwise, please present it.

Furthermore, of the politiians that I mentioned in my prior post, all of them had children who are active duty soldiers in combat or combat support units in Iraq or Afghanistan. None of them are in the "diplomatic corp". Most of them are NCOs, Lts. and Captains, which are the groups that, statistically speaking, take the heaviest casualties.

(The statistics from cobat units show that NCOs and low-level officers and brand-new personnel just out of boot-camp have the highest levels of combat casualties. The newbies because of their lack of experience, and the low-level officers and NCOs because of the leadership nature of their jobs that requires them to take risks in order to manage small-unit combat. i don't have the exact statistics in font of me, but the information can be found in any reasonably good military science/small unit combat tactical text.)

Elliot