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I am so ashamed to be an American, to be living in this country and I'm sure I'm not the only one. My point is a this, said a few ways:
Regardless of what your political situation in, there is one very important fact no one can deny, Pres. Bush said we went into Iraq because there were weapons of mass destruction. We then found out and the Pres. acknowledged that there were no WMDs, that there was misinformation. Looking through history it seems we should all learn something, one can not just trust what an informant/Comm./Gen./Sec. of Def. when you are waging war on a country. One HAS to know the facts and there were ways for out Pres. to know the facts, but he obviously didn't dig that deep. We went into Iraq on a lie. Why can't we see that that is a problem. That there isn't anything wrong with saying we were wrong and now we are going to fix it. But that is not what happened.
Why does America go running around telling other Diplomats what they can and can't do, what they can and can't have? Who made us the higher power? Now the Pres. says we are there to bring Democracy to Iraq. Ok, well, did this country ask to change their current system to one that we model today? Why do we think that we had the right to go in there and change their lives COMPLETELY because Pres. Bush thinks it a good thing to give them this so called "gift". We go telling Iran they can not have a nuclear plant, but we are allowed to manufacture nuclear weapons. What makes us think that we know how to keep dangerous or deadly things under proper control? Seems the America that has been created appears to think that we are smart than everyone else. And that, obviously is not true, for many reasons. Interesting how Rices and Bush keep saying that the Iraqis have to get their military together so that they can take control and our troops can leave. Funny how we bring this amazing shift in on their economy, in their politics and their military.
There was violence in Iraq WAY before we got there. If we pull our troops out now there won't be an increase in violence. RIGHT NOW, THIS time has proven that the country they live in today is FAR more avalanched by violence than it has been in a very very long time. There was violence before our troops got there, there was Saddam, our troops invaded Iraq and not only did the violence stay the same, it has escalated. Our troops pull out and there will still be violence. Our troops leave, and there will still be violence. Our troops continue to stay and go door to door "embedded" into the Iraqi military, the doors they open will hold more violence and more danger, the Iraqi people did not ask for this and they don't want us there.
Pres. Bush did not make a new plan, or a new strategy or anything else. We are going to us more military force, ok, so let's just keep increasing our troops, from 4 years ago to today, how many more of our military is there? It didn't work the first time, it didn't work the second time they tried implementing a new plan and here we go again, adding more troops. I thought the definition for insane was 'very foolish', ex. "Pres. Bush has taken insane measures concerning this war in/with Iraq."
Sadly our troops are continuing to die. And while I can not than them enough for ensuring out security and at first, fighting for a cause. They have no been left there, with a so called "non opened time", so when will the get to come home? Seems no one can answer that. I care about our troops and their families, I care about the Iraqi people, the things and people they love and care about. I care that America has allies, I care about the need for us to back down and stop trying to control the world. To me it's like 2 people in a bad relationship, one may really not like something about the other, but eventually it's realized by someone, the person that has a mature thought and they start trying to only change themselves because no one can make anyone change if they don't want to. In hand with that, when the mature person continues to work on themselves the other person starts feeling like things are changing, that something good is going on and then they can work on themselves together. That's what America needs to do, that is what Bush needs to do, be more mature in thought.
So like I said, at the moment I am ashamed to live here, to be an American.
How do you feel about the country you live in? What does America represent to you? What should it represent to the world?
I did not mean to upset you and it hurts my heart to think that that is what I did to you because I do not mean this personally towards you or anybody else. It is just an attitude that John has that we Canadians do not like that much. It is not so much a hatred towards americans but a dislike for arrogance. We tend to be more humble and peaceful and we do not like it when somebody, especially American John come out and say that he and his government has every right to invade and fight and get involved in any war they want. Then to top it off say they won wars they never did. Americans tried to invade canada for land in 1812 and they lost. If they did not lose, then Canada would be part of the states right now, but we are not.
So know that I love you as a Friend, and it hurts my heart to see you react this way, but I am trying to share with you why I and others might feel the way we do. It is not towards you but towards Johns attitude that American has the right to invade any country and start strife in any Country they feel like it, that makes me angry.
I thought this site was for quality debate, why do you have to get personal. Did I attack you personally? Seems to me you woke up on the wrong side of the rock. It has become fairly obvious to me, you only want to hear from folks with your opinion...that's a fair and balanced debate.
I have been to many countries out of uniform, and lived in several. I have always been respectful to all folks while in their country, and have never had any problems with folks' attitude towards the United States. In fact, most folks thank us for all the good we do around the world.
Unfortunately, you have taken this debate to an unhealthy level. You are holding me responsible for all the deaths around the world. I'm falling over laughing!!!
The war of 1812 was clearly an American victory. I don't know what history books you have read. The war was fought against the British. Trade was the real issue. Yes, Canada was a minor issue, a mere foot note in history!!!
It is not personal. You john are the one that said that you and america has every right to bring your arms in any country, to start and interfere in any countries war. How you are superiour to every other country, how you are the best country, how you are the biggest power and have every right to fight a war in any country you want.
As far as 1812 being an american success, Nope. If it was we would be calling parts of Canada, America. The united states was unsuccessful in advancing on Canadian soil. So no you did not win the war.
At the time Canada was a British territory so to say that Canada was a minor issue your wrong there too.
I am saying your war like attitude. Just like Bush is what got your country in the mess it is in now. If you did not go around to all the different countries acting like King _____, then you would not have the attacks on american soil you have had.
This is a very healthy debate. Whether you like it or not is not really a concern for me. It is not personal at all. It is your attitude, it is your thoughts that it is your countries right to invade and bring up arms on any country that kills people, so yes you are responsible just like Bush is responsible for all the deaths on American soil of his own people and Americans abroad, and innocent people from all the other countries you decided to go to war with.
How long did you serve? I am so glad to hear that as an American you were met with positive feedback. Hurts me to my heart, as well as confuses me to know otherwise.
I do not belive we go around the world acting like King anything. To me, we provide aide and safety to those who are in desperate need of it.
There is no way, shape or form, that any American is responsible for the lives lost on the USS Cole, and 9/11. Those actions, were, to me, just shear unbased hatered.
I am letting you know that is the perception that many people have about the american government. That many different nationalities were lost in 9/11 and I do believe if The american government was not so trigger happy in other peoples wars that hatred would not be there and there would have been no attack on american soil, but that is just my opinion.
I told myself to stay out of this thread after my first couple of post.
But I have to make a couple of points and then I will try and stay out of it.
John 1865 we are nowhere near the top of the food chain.
We are no where near where we need to be military wise. We have so many open holes in this country and with all or military else where we are open to an attack anytime.
Correct me if I am wrong but the war of 1812 was over before the battle of new orleans was fought.
I will go back to one thing I have said before. We are right in some of are decsicions but we need to be willing to admit when are thinking is wrong.
Iran has been a problem and will continur to be a problem.
How ever we do not need to jump into it blind we need a good stratgy before we go in there.
We also need the support of a lot more countries then we did before we entered Iraq.
If you look back we did not have the full support of the UN and we really needed it rather then try and go it alone.
We are streached to thin to put up to much of an offense If the untied states is attacked.
Location: Now hailing from St. Petersburg, Florida US of A, North America, planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy.
Posts: 2,150
I agree with all those saying that America needs to stay out of other countries affairs. I for one am one American who is tired of paying over half of what he makes to give food, health care, protection and other aid to countries and people all around this planet who don't seem to give a damn or ever want to pay us back, or worse yet never want to do anything for themselves or set up real governments. For the love of God, when we went to war in Afghanistan we actually had to drop food and water to the citizens, much which was taken by the Taliban militias. For love of all that is PC, I would love to know what other country would fight a war like this? And then of course you had the New York Times claiming that wasn't enough and immediately calling for us to pull out!
So here's my idea that will never work in the real world. But it's this, if the rest of the world supposedly hates us like CNN and the NYT keep repeating how about we just cut off all aid everywhere! That way my fellow Americans can receive it or my personal choice, my taxes decrease significantly. The world wins and we win.
My thought as well is if your unable to take care of your own, how can you expect take care care of anybody else elsewhere. Well that is what has been happening.
I say that is the best solution ever thought of. Stop spending billions of dollars in wars that have nothing to do with your country. Stop aid and let them fend for themselves. They will eventually become a better people because of it and Americans, and as well as Canadians will prosper and be able to take care of its people in a better way.
I agree with all those saying that America needs to stay out of other countries affairs. I for one am one American who is tired of paying over half of what he makes to give food, health care, protection and other aid to countries and people all around this planet who don't seem to give a damn or ever want to pay us back, or worse yet never want to do anything for themselves or set up real governments. For the love of God, when we went to war in Afghanistan we actually had to drop food and water to the citizens, much which was taken by the Taliban militias. For love of all that is PC, I would love to know what other country would fight a war like this? And then of course you had the New York Times claiming that wasn't enough and immediately calling for us to pull out!
So here's my idea that will never work in the real world. But it's this, if the rest of the world supposedly hates us like CNN and the NYT keep repeating how about we just cut off all aid everywhere! That way my fellow Americans can receive it or my personal choice, my taxes decrease significantly. The world wins and we win.
Sorry Chuff, had to spread it...grrrr
With you 100%. Sure would be nice if those so filled with hatred for us, would be kind enough to express that and decline taking our aid. Seems only right. Either you hate us or you don't. Make up your mind. Sure boils my blood. Would have much rather seen that same aid go to those Americans in New Orleans. Now that would have been money well spent !
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