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    Illegal emigrants voting

    Asked Nov 3, 2007, 03:30 PM ó 62 Answers
    Fred Lucas, CNSNews.com Staff Writer reported:
    “New York Democratic Gov. Elliott Spitzer pushed the policy, enacted last month, as a "common sense change" to give illegal aliens "the opportunity to obtain a driver license in a responsible and secure manner."
    But opponents of the plan immediately cited homeland security concerns, recalling that 9/11 hijackers had obtained phony driver's licenses.”

    Licenses-for-Illegals Faces Court Challenge in New York -- 11/02/2007

    However what he didn’t report was that the Justice Department found that eight of the 19 hijackers were registered to vote.
    This brings another serious problem that a Wall Street Journal op-ed piece, “This Will Make Voter Fraud Easier” by John Fund does bring to light and, that is voter fraud. I wonder if this will pass the “Bull Test.”

    OpinionJournal - John Fund on the Trail

    Who, he asks, are for granting a drivers license to illegal emigrants?
    Democrat’s, he answers and uses Hillary Clinton as an example along with New York governor Eliot Spitzer.

    Meanwhile Arnold Ahlert a columnist for the NY Post for the past seven years enters the fracas, or farces, which is yet to be determined; with the question.
    “What could be more threatening to our democratic republic than voter fraud? Nothing. What could be more threatening to the ambitions of the American Left–MoveOn.org, Code Pink, George Soros, Clinton, Obama, Edwards, et al–than fraud-FREE elections? Nothing.
    In the 2008 election, two political parties will be vying for your vote. It is worth remembering which party is willing to make a complete mockery of your one opportunity to participate in our democratic process. As a conservative, it is somewhat annoying to realize that a liberal “cancels out” my vote.
    That an illegal alien–or a terrorist thug–could do the same thing is an absolute outrage.

    Political Mavens » 9/11 Terrorists–Registered to Vote

    How many of the 12-20 million illegal aliens in the country do you want voting?

    Last edited by Dark_crow; Nov 3, 2007 at 03:42 PM.
    "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."
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    62 Answers
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,436, Reputation: 2985
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    #21

    Nov 7, 2007, 06:33 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ETWolverine
    It was done rather well prior to the 1960s. Illegal immigration was minimal because border security was TOUGH and because the government enforced employment laws. It is only since the 1960s and the rise of the political power of the far left with the civil-rights and anti-war movements that enforcing our borders became "too difficult". So I don't buy the argument that it can't be done, because it has been done.
    Hello El:

    What??

    That's what's so funny about you righty's. You think all you need to do is pass a law, put it in a book, and then enforce it. But, in your haste, and your law and order zeal, you forgot that we have 4,500 miles of open borders - 3,000 up north, and 1,500 down south. Dude. I don't know if you've spent much time out west. But, it's BIG out there.

    The borders are not enforceable now, they never have been, and they never will be. That's not the fault of liberals. Bwa, ha ha ha.

    excon
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    ETWolverine's Avatar
    ETWolverine Posts: 934, Reputation: 275
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    #22

    Nov 7, 2007, 08:22 AM
    excon,

    First of all, I'm not talking about passing new laws. We already have good laws on the books. I'm just talking about enforcing them as the law requires.

    Second, I am talking about creating coverage for that 4500 miles of open border. That's the point. And I already talked in another post about a cost-effective way to do that. We take our military units that need training in desert warfare and place them along the borders. They train in desert warfare AND border security, both of which have applications to the situation in Iraq and Afghanistan. That makes it effective training. Stopping border crossings in the southwestern part of the USA is not radically different from stopping border crossings in Iraq and Afghanistan. Good training environment. We rotate units in and out of the area as needed, with each unit rotated through becoming responsible for border security. It's cheap in terms of labor (these soldiers are already on the government payroll) and cost effective in terms of training environments and practical training. Andf a few thousand troops with the appropriate equipment on the borders at any one time will certainly close most of the gaps in border security, don't you think?

    So, no, I'm not just throwing out the idea of "making a new law" without any consideration of the consequences. I've followed through with a cost-effective, practical, workable idea for implementation. The border CAN be enforced effectively. It just takes a bit of thinking outside the box.

    Elliot
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    Dark_crow's Avatar
    Dark_crow Posts: 1,405, Reputation: 196
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    #23

    Nov 7, 2007, 11:49 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ETWolverine
    excon,

    First of all, I'm not talking about passing new laws. We already have good laws on the books. I'm just talking about enforcing them as the law requires.

    Second, I am talking about creating coverage for that 4500 miles of open border. That's the point. And I already talked in another post about a cost-effective way to do that. We take our military units that need training in desert warfare and place them along the borders. They train in desert warfare AND border security, both of which have applications to the situation in Iraq and Afghanistan. That makes it effective training. Stopping border crossings in the southwestern part of the USA is not radically different from stopping border crossings in Iraq and Afghanistan. Good training environment. We rotate units in and out of the area as needed, with each unit rotated through becoming responsible for border security. It's cheap in terms of labor (these soldiers are already on the government payroll) and cost effective in terms of training environments and practical training. Andf a few thousand troops with the appropriate equipment on the borders at any one time will certainly close most of the gaps in border security, don't you think?

    So, no, I'm not just throwing out the idea of "making a new law" without any consideration of the consequences. I've followed through with a cost-effective, practical, workable idea for implementation. The border CAN be enforced effectively. It just takes a bit of thinking outside the box.

    Elliot
    OMG! Why not set a security perimeter and mine the damm area.
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    Dark_crow's Avatar
    Dark_crow Posts: 1,405, Reputation: 196
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    #24

    Nov 7, 2007, 11:59 AM
    Or, we could make it a hate crime to hire anyone here illegally, or rent to, sell to, or associate with.
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    Skell's Avatar
    Skell Posts: 1,863, Reputation: 514
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    #25

    Nov 7, 2007, 03:01 PM
    Maybe Blackwater could use their heavy handed ways to keep them out!
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    ETWolverine's Avatar
    ETWolverine Posts: 934, Reputation: 275
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    #26

    Nov 8, 2007, 08:48 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_crow
    Or, we could make it a hate crime to hire anyone here illegally, or rent to, sell to, or associate with.
    Like I said to excon, we don't need new laws. The ones that already exist are just fine. We just need to start enforcing them.

    Elliot
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    Dark_crow's Avatar
    Dark_crow Posts: 1,405, Reputation: 196
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    #27

    Nov 8, 2007, 09:23 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ETWolverine
    Like I said to excon, we don't need new laws. The ones that already exist are just fine. We just need to start enforcing them.

    Elliot
    I can just imagine similar conversations taking place about the borders of the Mandate for Palestine by the British between 1923 and 1948 regarding illegal Jewish immigration.
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    ETWolverine's Avatar
    ETWolverine Posts: 934, Reputation: 275
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    #28

    Nov 8, 2007, 09:55 AM
    DC,

    The British mandate was very effective at border control in what was then Palestine. I may not like the fact that they did it, but there is no doubt that it was effective.

    That said, they managed to do it through military control of the borders. That's exactly what I'm proposing here. And I believe that it can be just as effective, or more so, than the British were in Palestine.

    Rather than turning my argument off, you are actually proving my point for me. If you want effective border control, get the military involved.

    Elliot
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    Dark_crow's Avatar
    Dark_crow Posts: 1,405, Reputation: 196
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    #29

    Nov 8, 2007, 10:06 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ETWolverine
    DC,

    The British mandate was very effective at border control in what was then Palestine. I may not like the fact that they did it, but there is no doubt that it was effective.

    That said, they managed to do it through military control of the borders. That's exactly what I'm proposing here. And I believe that it can be just as effective, or more so, than the British were in Palestine.

    Rather than turning my argument off, you are actually proving my point for me. If you want effective border control, get the military involved.

    Elliot
    So there were no illegal Jewish immigrants into the mandate between 1923 and 1948 according to you. Well, thatís some news the world should hear about. Thatís like denying the Holocaust.
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    ETWolverine's Avatar
    ETWolverine Posts: 934, Reputation: 275
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    #30

    Nov 8, 2007, 02:15 PM
    I didn't say there were NONE. But it is fairly clear that not as many got in as wished to. In fact, the vast majority of Jewish immigrants never made it to Palestine until AFTER Israeli statehood in 1948. That is part of the reason that so many Jews died in the Holocaust despite warnings from various Zionist leaders like Hertzl, Jabotinsky, and others to get out of Europe and return to our historical homeland. They couldn't get into Palestine, the USA wasn't taking them, and nobody else wanted them either. (And in a few cases, they didn't want to leave Europe anyway... but that is a topic for another string.) For the most part the British border control over Palestine in the 20s and 30s and early 40s was very tight.

    After 1944 or so things started changing because the Jews inside Palestine were starting to organize into an effective anti-British force that was able to counter the British border security. It was only with indiginous help from Jews already inside Palestine that the tight security began to weaken.

    The USA does not have an indiginous organized movement that is willing to take on the US military in combat to weaken border security. So there is no parallel to the reasons that the British Mandate's border security failed at the end. There IS quite a bit of parallel as to why their tight security worked for as long as it did.

    Elliot
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