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Home > Society & Culture > Politics   »   Conservatives have never fully absorbed the fact that America is based on universal i

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Old Oct 10, 2007, 05:01 PM
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Conservatives have never fully absorbed the fact that America is based on universal i

"While conservatives like Steyn call for a display of this confidence in reaction to controversies like the "cartoon jihad," it is they who lack confidence in our civilization’s ability to absorb and assimilate immigrants. This was honestly confessed in a March 30 column by Peggy Noonan in the Wall Street Journal, in which she wrote that opposition to immigration springs less from "fear about 'them'" than from "anxiety about us."

"There is a grain of truth to this fear about the failure to assimilate immigrants. The phenomenon of "political correctness" and the corruption of the teaching of American history in our schools—most notably, the attempt to portray slavery and racism, not the fight for liberty, as the essence of our history—are real threats to the process of assimilation.


"But the issue of political correctness only incidentally connects to immigration. If the ability of our culture to induct people into the values of our civilization is in doubt, then 11 million illegal immigrants are a relatively small problem. What we really ought to be worried about is a group of 75 million people who desperately need to be assimilated into America's culture of individualism, taught the essential facts about America's history, and encouraged to appreciate the virtues of our political system.

An interesting take on immigration; for the whole story follow the link.

The Intellectual Activist

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Old Oct 10, 2007, 05:39 PM   #2  
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Every wave of immigration, whether Irish, Italian, Asian, Hispanic etc.. has faced discrimination.

It isn't a conservative or liberal thing. It is a human thing.

But what other country in the world, with a comparable population , has our diversity, freedom, and relative peace that can compare to the US.

And, I believe, the conservative argument is not about assimilation, but about the rule of law.

As to assimilation, why is that a bad thing. Problems rise when people see things in "us vs them" terms rather than in terms of "we."





Grace and Peace

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BABRAM agrees: Good point! I prefer the word "acclimation."
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Old Oct 11, 2007, 03:49 AM   #3  
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Why is it so hard for people to understand the real issue?No one is objecting to immigration or the pursuit of the American Dream.All we ask is for there to be a legal process so that the first act of the "immigrant " is not breaking the laws of the nation they wish to adopt ,and that the government once the laws are in place make an honest effort to enforce them .

I agree with the authors contention that American youth are not being properly educated about what it means to be American. Civics should be reintroduced into the education system . And yes;we could do well with alot less PC.

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kindj agrees: Exactly! All we are asking is that the laws be followed. How is that discriminatory or racist?
nicespringgirl agrees: Exactly!! I came here legally! I love Americans, and I don't see racial discrimination towards me at all. I just don't get some of the ppl in the country and most of them are Dems!
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Old Oct 11, 2007, 09:54 AM   #4  
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First of all, it is important to understand that Bush and his followers are *not* conservatives. Real conservatives such as William F. Buckley and George Will and others have brought that to America's attention. Bush and his policies resemble Fascism, not Conservatism. (I will post in the future the reasons why he is a fascist).

Bush has done nothing to curb illegal immigration over our southern border because corporate interests want cheap labor.

Your quotes are out of context, so I'll just say that immigrants who achieve middle class status in a generation from all cultures assimilate just fine. It is the poor people who remain in ghetto like surroundings speaking their native tongue and underachieving.

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Dark_crow agrees: The context is in the link, did you read it
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Old Oct 11, 2007, 10:00 AM   #5  
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It’s really a moral issue isn’t it, what gives them a moral right to restrict immigration; immigration is about the individual's right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," a right that is universal and applies to all men, whether they were born in America or not.

“There is no conflict between the moral and the practical, and so immigration is not just required by the principle of individual rights—it also provides powerful economic benefits.

“….immigrants like the Indian computer programmers who are granted special visas set aside for highly skilled workers. But America also benefits from Mexican day-laborers who bring no special skill other than the capacity for hard work. After all, Emma Lazarus didn't say, "send me your artists and Ph.D.s"; she asked for the "wretched refuse of your teeming shore"—knowing that people considered "refuse" in the Old World would become productive citizens in a free society.”

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tomder55 agrees: I do not understand where we have a moral obligation to open borders that the rest of the world does not share. A nation without borders is not a nation .We have a perfect right to decide who enters.
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Old Oct 11, 2007, 10:20 AM   #6  
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Tom

Then you do not believe that it is an individual's right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," a right that is universal and applies to all men? Just to the fortunate who through no effort of their own where born in America.
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Old Oct 11, 2007, 10:29 AM   #7  
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OH, no I didn't read the link....my bad. will check it out later and get back to your question.

Regards,
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Old Oct 11, 2007, 10:43 AM   #8  
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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America
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Old Oct 11, 2007, 12:53 PM   #9  
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"The first and most fundamental argument in favor of unrestricted immigration is a moral argument. Immigration is about the individual's right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," a right that is universal and applies to all men, whether they were born in America or not. That includes a foreigner’s right to come to the United States, to rent or buy a home from an American, and to accept a job from an American employer—his right to pursue "the American dream." (See "Americans Against the American Dream," TIA, Vol. 19, Nos. 5 & 6.)




Some intellectually challenging questions:

If the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a "universal" right, why don't other countries have this in their constitution?

Are other countries afraid of adopting something peculiar to America, and are afraid to assimilate it into their form of government and culture?

Why don't other countries have "open borders ?"

Why is it endorsed by these people that the US has an open border and not expect the same from the rest of the world?

Is not the American Dream possible because our founding fathers started out with rules and laws? If these laws are violated, or not enforced, what guarantee is there that the American Dream will remain so?

Then we will become like third rate countries where some of these immigrants are coming from. Is this what they ultimately want to achieve?


Your article uses the perjorative term "anti - immigrant" - the correct term is "anti-illegal immigrant."



"Two thirds of these immigrants also pay Social Security taxes, even though they will never be eligible to collect benefits. "
and that is because they are ...... illegal? or using fake or stolen SS#s?


I do agree that there is a "The American anti-war, pro-communist group" and
"We must grasp where the threat truly originates: with our high-school teachers, our college professors, our political commentators, our Hollywood screenwriters. "


Just a side note, my parents came here legally, my father a recruited profesional.
My parents taught and instilled American values of hard work, education, personal responsibility, and self-reliance.




Grace and Peace

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tomder55 agrees: good job .
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Old Oct 11, 2007, 01:20 PM   #10  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inthebox
"The first and most fundamental argument in favor of unrestricted immigration is a moral argument. Immigration is about the individual's right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," a right that is universal and applies to all men, whether they were born in America or not. That includes a foreigner’s right to come to the United States, to rent or buy a home from an American, and to accept a job from an American employer—his right to pursue "the American dream." (See "Americans Against the American Dream," TIA, Vol. 19, Nos. 5 & 6.)




Some intellectually challenging questions:

If the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a "universal" right, why don't other countries have this in their constitution?

Are other countries afraid of adopting something peculiar to America, and are afraid to assimilate it into their form of government and culture?

Why don't other countries have "open borders ?"

Why is it endorsed by these people that the US has an open border and not expect the same from the rest of the world?

Is not the American Dream possible because our founding fathers started out with rules and laws? If these laws are violated, or not enforced, what guarantee is there that the American Dream will remain so?

Then we will become like third rate countries where some of these immigrants are coming from. Is this what they ultimately want to achieve?


Your article uses the perjorative term "anti - immigrant" - the correct term is "anti-illegal immigrant."



"Two thirds of these immigrants also pay Social Security taxes, even though they will never be eligible to collect benefits. "
and that is because they are ...... illegal? or using fake or stolen SS#s?


I do agree that there is a "The American anti-war, pro-communist group" and
"We must grasp where the threat truly originates: with our high-school teachers, our college professors, our political commentators, our Hollywood screenwriters. "


Just a side note, my parents came here legally, my father a recruited profesional.
My parents taught and instilled American values of hard work, education, personal responsibility, and self-reliance.




Grace and Peace
Actually the article address’s most of your questions, except about what other countries are doing.

Did America begin with the assumption, that it was going to follow in the footsteps of a trail already blazed?

The answer is obliviously no.

The truth of the matter is that it began with the assumption of universal ideas—the ideas of individualism and liberty; in its Declaration of Independence: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That is what the “Rules and laws” you speak of were based on.were based on.
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