It's no surprise that the Central Intelligence Agency breaks the law. But how much they do it is a real shocker. In 1996, the House of Representatives' Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence released a huge report entitled "IC21." Hidden among hundreds of pages of this report lies one, shocking paragraph:

The CS [clandestine service] is the only part of the IC [intelligence community], indeed of the government, where hundreds of employees on a daily basis are directed to break extremely serious laws in countries around the world in the face of frequently sophisticated efforts by foreign governments to catch them. A safe estimate is that several hundred times every day (easily 100,000 a year) DO [Directorate of Operations] officers engage in highly illegal activities (according to foreign law) that not only risk political embarrassment to the US but also endanger the freedom if not lives of the participating foreign nationals and, more than occasionally, of the clandestine officer himself.

CIA expert, John Kelly, also notes that "The CIA's crimes include terrorism, assassination, torture, and systematic violations of human rights."

Question:
Do you think that the CIA's crime doesn't pay, or do you like how our country makes trouble for the benefit of the US?

tomder55

Of course the CIA breaks laws of countries they are conducting espionage and intel .gathering in. Why would that be news ?

ETWolverine

Exactly how do you expect spies to gather information about foreign, often hostile governments?

And exactly what do you think other countries' intelligence agencies are doing to collect information about us? Think they are obeying our laws while trying to obtain our military and national security secrets?

What, exactly, do you think spies are supposed to be doing?

Elliot

excon

Hello gallivant:

Well, it depends.....

IF, in the commission of their crimes, they get intel that works to our nations benefit (like missiles in Cuba), then I'd say it's worth it. However, if in the process of committing their crimes, they come back with BS (like "slam dunk"), then I don't think their crimes benefited the US at all. And no, that doesn't please me.

excon

tomder55

gallivant

If you are looking for a real interesting read about the CIA then try "Sabotage: America’s Enemies Within the CIA." by Rowan Scarborough .

I do not mind the CIA doing America's work in foreign nations . I object strongly when they interfere in domestic politics.

My own position on the agency is that it should be disbanded as a separate entity and intelligence operations should be returned to the military .

kindj

By way of reply, let me put roughly the same scenario in different context:

Should narcotics officers be allowed to possess, buy, and/or sell narcotics in their efforts to apprehend drug dealers? Technically, such things are crimes.

However, if by their actions they keep my boys from being offered drugs, then I'm all for it.

Likewise, if by their efforts the CIA keeps bad guys out of my yard, then I'm all for it.

Espionage is a dirty business, no argument there. But as someone aptly pointed out, "criminal activity" is the very NATURE of espionage, as your whole goal is to secretly acquire what is not yours, mostly intelligence, but sometimes tangible items as well.

tomder55

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.”

gallivant_fellow

Of course they do crime like espionage, that's what they're for. They assassinate people too, again no surprise to anyone. BUT, this article isn't about them just spying and getting secrets, it's about SERIOUS CRIMES!!!!!! The serious crimes include TERRORISM, TORTURE, AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. Do you get what I mean now? Everyone knows the CIA does tons of illegal stuff, but the question is: Do you feel comfortable with the CIA's serious crimes, which they do in mass amounts, or do you think they should take it down a notch?

gallivant_fellow

Thanks excon. You were the only one who read and understood my post. It's not about the CIA spying in any way. It's about the "CIA committing crimes against humanity with de facto impunity and congressional sanctioning." -John Kelly

Why in hell would I write about a spy agency just spying?

Dark_crow

Ah! The fine art of espionage… tradecraft, the duplicities, treacheries, and violence…the mole… the use of torture, espionage training…a world that exists almost completely in shades of gray. Men and women who lay their lives on the line 24 hours a day.
We owe more to the men and women in the “Company” than we do to any Congressman. If anything we should get Congress out of the business of what the CIA is doing.

We need to move further away from Idealism and closer to Reality.